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PostNov 19, 2009#26

mchamartin wrote:
numike wrote:yes six stories would be nice but I imagine the neighbors around such a structure may not support the plans
As one of those neighbors, I have to say I'd support it wholeheartedly. I cringe every time I pass that strip mall. Six stories isn't that much anyway -- a lot of the buildings along this stretch of Pershing are already five or six stories. Put up some six story buildings fronting the sidewalk with ground level retail. I'd be thrilled. Can't speak for anyone else, but I know I'd love it.


Do you own a single-family home to the west or live in a larger building to the east?
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PostNov 20, 2009#27

Grover wrote:
mchamartin wrote:
numike wrote:yes six stories would be nice but I imagine the neighbors around such a structure may not support the plans
As one of those neighbors, I have to say I'd support it wholeheartedly. I cringe every time I pass that strip mall. Six stories isn't that much anyway -- a lot of the buildings along this stretch of Pershing are already five or six stories. Put up some six story buildings fronting the sidewalk with ground level retail. I'd be thrilled. Can't speak for anyone else, but I know I'd love it.


Do you own a single-family home to the west or live in a larger building to the east?
I'm in an apartment just east on Pershing.
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PostNov 20, 2009#28

There's no doubt that an urban-style development in place of the strip mall will restore a grand entrance into Forest Park when traveling south on DeBaliviere. Street front retail and apartments above seems like a guaranteed overnight success in this location. I also think it will greatly increase the appeal for existing businesses along DeBaliviere/Pershing.



I would really like to see some attention given to the retail storefronts on Pershing east of DeBaliviere. It's a densely-populated neighborhood with great transit access, and those store fronts deserve a higher use than offices.
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PostNov 20, 2009#29

^ I tend to agree and I offer this as only a rumor, but I've been told that Velocity Cafe may not stay open. Does this say anything about that area? Or just that there's a quality bike shop in the loop, Kayak's coffee not far away and the Forest Park visitor's center has a cafe and bike rentals?
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PostNov 23, 2009#30

As much as I hope that does not happen, I am a little surprised it has lasted this long. I am only in the area maybe twice a week and stop in for coffee a couple times a month but I never it see it "bustling". Occassionally at night there will be light crowds but nothing regular. I could be way off, that is just my experience.



What is up with the end space before the bus stop? It looked like take out pizza and wings or something and was open last time I got on metro there. Signage could be better for the donuts space and that space but I like the painted sign that Velocity has on the southside of the building.



It does seem like as many people seem to be active between Union and Deb, that retail should prosper. 2shae seems to do alright.
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PostNov 24, 2009#31

maybe they should also open up more streets to DeBaliviere. The whole street is barricaded off. Did the street used to go north of Delmar before they added that "park"? I like the idea of density all the way along this strip, and cut the street north through the "park" north of delmar, push gentrification into this area as well. What should be a grand entrance to Forest Park is lacking and is disconnected from the neighborhoods north. Install more street cameras if crime is the concern. I have to argue that a lack of traffic movement harms more than helps this neighborhood.
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PostNov 24, 2009#32

JCity wrote:maybe they should also open up more streets to DeBaliviere. The whole street is barricaded off. Did the street used to go north of Delmar before they added that "park"? I like the idea of density all the way along this strip, and cut the street north through the "park" north of delmar, push gentrification into this area as well. What should be a grand entrance to Forest Park is lacking and is disconnected from the neighborhoods north. Install more street cameras if crime is the concern. I have to argue that a lack of traffic movement harms more than helps this neighborhood.


I think it did. That park is creepy as hell. I never understood the rationale behind that park when FOREST PARK is just a few blocks away.



EDIT: Now that I think about it, I think I do understand the rationale behind that park, and I don't like it.
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PostNov 24, 2009#33

Are you talking about the Ruth Porter Mall? It's set to become one of the region's bike/walking trails that connects the park system. It will terminate at St. Vincent Park in North County, connecting it to Forest Park.



Trust me that if DeBaliviere built up on its current stretch, no one would be complaining about Ruth Porter. DeBaliviere presently is incredibly underutilized. A giant grassy lot adjacent to Forest Park. Suburban style strip mall. Parking lot frontage everywhere. This mixed use project proposal would go a long way into shifting the character of DeB back to urbanity and something respectful of its proximity to a well-used Metro stop and, of course, Forest Park.



What has shocked me over the years is not only DeBaliviere, but Pershing in DeBaliviere Place. Why can't it hold on to retail/restaurants? There's so much empty retail space in the neighborhood. Why?
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PostNov 24, 2009#34

Matt Drops The H wrote:


What has shocked me over the years is not only DeBaliviere, but Pershing in DeBaliviere Place. Why can't it hold on to retail/restaurants? There's so much empty retail space in the neighborhood. Why?


The Loop and CWE are such huge draws that it creates a vacuum in between.
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PostNov 24, 2009#35

quincunx wrote:
Matt Drops The H wrote:


What has shocked me over the years is not only DeBaliviere, but Pershing in DeBaliviere Place. Why can't it hold on to retail/restaurants? There's so much empty retail space in the neighborhood. Why?


The Loop and CWE are such huge draws that it creates a vacuum in between.


I think the park also creates a barrier - the CWE is easy to get to from Kingshighway and The Loop is easy to get to from Skinker, but to get to Pershing from the south, you need to get to either DeBaliviere or Union, neither of which is accessible from 40. To access those streets you either need to cut through the park or access them from Lindell/Forest Park. Because of this, Pershing and DeBaliviere aren't really heavily trafficked, except by people who live in the neighborhood.
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PostNov 24, 2009#36

And in macro terms, local residents do not support neighborhood businesses as they once did. There is pretty good density along DeBaliviere and down to Union especially. If everyone in the condos/apts/homes would buy their coffee at Velocity or eat along Pershing there wouldn't be a problem supporting retail. It's simply too easy to get in a car - there are so many choices nearby and easily accessible and many nearby residents never walk by this strip because they're driving to work miles away.
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PostNov 24, 2009#37

DeBaliviere wrote:
quincunx wrote:
Matt Drops The H wrote:


What has shocked me over the years is not only DeBaliviere, but Pershing in DeBaliviere Place. Why can't it hold on to retail/restaurants? There's so much empty retail space in the neighborhood. Why?


The Loop and CWE are such huge draws that it creates a vacuum in between.


I think the park also creates a barrier - the CWE is easy to get to from Kingshighway and The Loop is easy to get to from Skinker, but to get to Pershing from the south, you need to get to either DeBaliviere or Union, neither of which is accessible from 40. To access those streets you either need to cut through the park or access them from Lindell/Forest Park. Because of this, Pershing and DeBaliviere aren't really heavily trafficked, except by people who live in the neighborhood.


Yes, but there aren't too many neighborhoods in St. Louis that have whole rows of mid-rises and 6-families. I was expecting at least some neighborhood services (dry cleaners, cafes, coffee shop, bars, etc.). I know there used to be a hookah bar; it closed. There also used to be a coffee shop; it's gone. With news that Velocity is troubled, the neighborhood seems to be an inexplicable storefront black hole. It just seems that density and transit should work in its favor more.
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PostNov 25, 2009#38





Metro plans retail, housing project for park-and-ride lot

(by Kara Krekeler - November 25, 2009)



Metro has chosen developer McCormack Baron to build a mixed-use project at the Forest Park-DeBaliviere park-and-ride lot.



The development would include up to 147 mixed-income housing units, 43,000 square feet of retail space and a parking structure with more than 100 spaces to accommodate both the development and Metro users, said Cady Scott, associate project manager for McCormack Baron.



link: http://www.westendword.com/NC/0/1320.html
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PostNov 25, 2009#39

goat314 wrote:



Metro plans retail, housing project for park-and-ride lot

(by Kara Krekeler - November 25, 2009)



Metro has chosen developer McCormack Baron to build a mixed-use project at the Forest Park-DeBaliviere park-and-ride lot.



The development would include up to 147 mixed-income housing units, 43,000 square feet of retail space and a parking structure with more than 100 spaces to accommodate both the development and Metro users, said Cady Scott, associate project manager for McCormack Baron.



link: http://www.westendword.com/NC/0/1320.html


Nice to get more solid information about this project. Anyone able to find a larger copy of the rendering?
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PostNov 25, 2009#40

Looks like it's still a long way from being finalized, but at least that prime intersection is on the radar for smart urban redevelopment. Let's keep our fingers crossed that funding comes through!
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PostNov 25, 2009#41

No comment on McCormack Baron as far as design but they do a nice job of managing low income housing.
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PostNov 26, 2009#42

Do I understand the rendering correctly, is that looking north as if your at the Forest Parkway intersection with your back is facing the History museum? Second question, did they incorporate the Loop Trolley into the rendering?



On another note, Hopefully McCormack Baron found a better partner in Metro then their last attempt to do something on Grand Ave with SLU.
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PostNov 28, 2009#43

Atlas and Talayna's don't seem to have any problems.



It is also frustrating that a prime retail corner of the neighborhood is Metropolis' offices which sit vacant most of the time.



When there are festivals or events in the neighborhood (wine festival, summer movie nights, recent outdoor concert....) they are always well attended by a demographic (young professionals, students, grad students...) that one would think would flock to practical retail options. Why storefronts suffer is an enigma.
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PostDec 02, 2009#44

I did that rendering and would post a larger version but haven't posted pics on here before. Advice anyone? It is looking north from FPP and the trolley line is practically in the middle of the shot there. OT; I pushed to open streets along DB, however, many of the streets don't reach another arterial but rather die or dogleg close to DB. In general, you are correct, the more intersections the better. Look at a map and you will see this is true except for maybe two intersections. The bike trail, being a component of this proposal, is trying for fewer intersections along this stretch. I don't necessarily agree but am somewhat sympathetic when this segment connects two otherwise intersectionless biking paths (forest park and the rp mall).
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PostDec 03, 2009#45

Gatechie wrote:I did that rendering and would post a larger version but haven't posted pics on here before. Advice anyone?


save image

upload to flickr

click "all sizes"

scroll down and select link under "2. Grab the photo's URL:"

paste in urbanstl and surround with or hi-lite and select url button



for example - from goat's picture above



shown by disabling the bbcode
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PostJan 25, 2010#46

anything that I/we in the local community of this project do to ensure that it becomes a reality?
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PostJan 26, 2010#47

A Metro representative commented on the P-D's Building Blocks article about another development in the area (http://tinyurl.com/ygloxt6) and said that the TIGER Grant for the Debaliviere project will be announced on February 15th. Hopefully Metro and McCormack Baron are awarded the grant. I think this project largely relies on that financing coming through.
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PostJan 27, 2010#48

bchao, raining on the parade. A number north of 50 billion dollars in TIGER grant applications were submitted to the DOT (some others for St. Louis city include a new 22nd interchange, reconfiguring Tucker Ave to the new MRB, and connecting Port of St Louis docks at the end of N. Market ST.). The applications are competing for 1.5 billion dollars worth of stimulus funds. I would be please if St. Louis would even get one grant.
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PostJan 27, 2010#49

Dredger - This is why I am still a bit skeptical about this project. The chance of getting a TIGER grant for this project seems slim to none. But, that doesn't mean we can't be hopeful!

I am pleased to see that Metro and McCormack Baron have been publicly discussing this development with the community, though. That alone makes me think that there might be some promise that this project will happen whether or not they get the grant (although it may be a smaller project). This area has so much potential to really be something great, with great housing, convenient Metrolink and Forest Park access, as well as a relatively close proximity to the Loop!
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PostFeb 15, 2010#50

Article in Times of Skinker-D. Looks like the developer is focusing on the Metro lot and hopes to expand northward to include the strip mall. It also says that the decision about the stimulus money would be out by Feb 15. How does one find out about it? BTW the FTA website has a picture of Metrolink on it.

Link
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