I'm no engineer, but I think it's possible to build a marina in the manner I'm talking about. You'd just have to levee it off a little. Did I just use levee as a verb?
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right you are, our alton friends to the north have done it. peoria IL also has a huge marina if i remember.
i could get behind this, better than having those yahoos drive out to the ozarks.
They have narrowed the river so much at downtown St Louis , that I believe it increases the current, like a bottle neck. There is a damn just south of Alton, which I was told, is the reason why they can have a marina and Downtown STL can not. To have one, they would need to create another damn.
Sure they can build a marina on the East Side. All it would take is lots of money and some engineers that understand river currents. I'm all for it!
I realize the river bottlenecks at St. Louis, that's why it was founded where it was actually...because it was the most narrow part of the river.
I'm thinking more of a half-man made lake, half marina. You could have the marina contain adjustable water levels, based upon the average river height. I'm thinking of a series of small canals and waterways that would assist in controlling the water level in the marina.
It would be a massively expensive undertaking, but man would that be cool.
I'm thinking more of a half-man made lake, half marina. You could have the marina contain adjustable water levels, based upon the average river height. I'm thinking of a series of small canals and waterways that would assist in controlling the water level in the marina.
It would be a massively expensive undertaking, but man would that be cool.
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Looking over the wall on the PSB its clear why you needed this overlook for the riverfront park .. because without it you can't see see the river.
the flood wall and the parks low elevation are at fault, also the park is further back from the river than i thought, and there is various industrial crap on the actual riverfront that further obscure the view.
if anyones actually been there, please comment.
the flood wall and the parks low elevation are at fault, also the park is further back from the river than i thought, and there is various industrial crap on the actual riverfront that further obscure the view.
if anyones actually been there, please comment.
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Any updates on this?
When does this park open? I've read this year. But when this year?
When does this park open? I've read this year. But when this year?
My son and I went to the location yesterday. I read the park would be completed by April 2008. There wasn't much more info anywhere on the net. First off, there are no signs anywhere giving directions to the park. Luckily we literally ran into the street after making several wrong turns. The platform is 80% done. They are still grading the park so looks like they are still 9 to 12 months away from completion depending of what additional design features are still left to complete. They are working so I guess that's a good thing.
The Gateway Geyser is the real draw to the park and the reason we originally made the trip. It is fantastic for about 5 minutes. There was a security guard and the man running the show. He was very kind and actually turned on the geyser just for us because he was going to cancel it do to the winds. In other words, wait until the park is done before making the trip.
Sean
The Gateway Geyser is the real draw to the park and the reason we originally made the trip. It is fantastic for about 5 minutes. There was a security guard and the man running the show. He was very kind and actually turned on the geyser just for us because he was going to cancel it do to the winds. In other words, wait until the park is done before making the trip.
Sean
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How would you suggest East St. Louis fix its problems?
Though I doubt it'd ever receive the funding, I'd love to see an urban-themed mixed-use development go up on their riverfront, directly across from St. Louis' downtown. It'd be nice to see an eclectic mix of retail, office, and residential. I mean, if not for the insanely high crime rates, how sweet would it be to live or work directly across from the Gateway Arch?
I've always lamented the fact that there are no skyscrapers on the East St. Louis side of the Mississippi River to compliment the ones on the St. Louis side. There's so much potential for that riverfront land in East St. Louis, but I fear it'll never be fully realized, if ever realized at all.
Though I doubt it'd ever receive the funding, I'd love to see an urban-themed mixed-use development go up on their riverfront, directly across from St. Louis' downtown. It'd be nice to see an eclectic mix of retail, office, and residential. I mean, if not for the insanely high crime rates, how sweet would it be to live or work directly across from the Gateway Arch?
I've always lamented the fact that there are no skyscrapers on the East St. Louis side of the Mississippi River to compliment the ones on the St. Louis side. There's so much potential for that riverfront land in East St. Louis, but I fear it'll never be fully realized, if ever realized at all.
^That's obviously something that would have to be done.
I don't think that city has much of a chance in the long-run.
I don't think that city has much of a chance in the long-run.
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Not by building skyscrapers.jaynovahawk07 wrote:How would you suggest East St. Louis fix its problems?
At least not any time soon. Saving the buildings that are already built there should come first.It's important for ESL to stabilize itself, work on building its image as the core of the Metro-East, and coming up with ways to make itself into downtown's eastern counterpart. What's good for downtown Stl is good for ESL.
Bike trails are one interesting way to attack the center problem. We've had a population shift west to West County, and jerking the idea of our center back to the river requires investment in that river. Most cities around the world do this with recreational infrastructure by the water itself. Bike commuters need to bike to downtown. Recreational bikers want to get to the riverfront. Putting the Mississippi River Trail (MRT) on both banks and connecting with bridges in between makes downtown and ESL the center of a major north-south bike corridor. Metro just got a million-dollar grant for this sort of stuff on the Missouri side, and eventually that'll be good for ESL too. Later feeder trails to SIUE, Cahokia Mounds, and Forest Park will add to that central bike hub feel.
Metro working on its Moving Transit Forward plan can also help put downtown, and ESL by extension, back at the center of things. Buses and trains from the Metro-East need go through East St. Louis to get to downtown, and that’s something Illinois ought to embrace.
Why not stage the Fair St. Louis parade on Eads Bridge? Make part of it in ESL. Hold more events on both sides of the river.
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^East St. Louis definitely doesn't need a skyscraper right now. I just wish they had them.
Your ideas for fixing ESTL are great, but many St. Louisans avoid East St. Louis like it's a plague. Do you see many St. Louisans from the Missouri side biking over there? If so, I'd love to see all of this implemented.
Your ideas for fixing ESTL are great, but many St. Louisans avoid East St. Louis like it's a plague. Do you see many St. Louisans from the Missouri side biking over there? If so, I'd love to see all of this implemented.
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I know several people from the West side who drive to Collinsville to bicycle on the extensive rails-to-trails paved bike trail network on the East side. Trailnet sponsors long trail rides on the East side, such as the one that starts at the Chain of Rocks Bridge and winds through Granite City. Also, their most popular ride is the Strawberry ride on the far East side in St. Jacob and Highland, where there are miles of flat paved farm-to-market roads perfect for bicycling.jaynovahawk07 wrote:^East St. Louis definitely doesn't need a skyscraper right now. I just wish they had them.
Your ideas for fixing ESTL are great, but many St. Louisans avoid East St. Louis like it's a plague. Do you see many St. Louisans from the Missouri side biking over there? If so, I'd love to see all of this implemented.
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A new bi-state trail is also in the works called the "Mounds Heritage Trail" linking Cahokia Mounds to ESL and the n. Riverfront Trail and then on down to the Sugar Loaf Mound by S. Broadway/ I-55.
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^Right! A trail in that part of the I-55 right-of-way would make great connections for Cherokee Street.
If SIUE expanded their bike sharing program to their ESL campus, and created more reasons for their students to bike back and forth, it'd put some people on that trail and increase SIUE's investment in the Illinois riverfront. Add a bike station on the Missouri Side and a possible bicycle park at the foot of the Iron Horse Trestle, and there will be people pedaling in all directions.
The Mississippi River Trail is a national trail. Think about some other national stuff that can help ESL to connect to downtown, Alton, Edwardsville, and other parts of the region: Great River Road, Amtrak, Route 66, and the arch grounds. By being national projects money can come from a wider variety of places, and ESL and downtown should both be trying to capitalize on that. Even the bird sanctuary that people seem so down on could help connect our core to the region and country as a whole via the Great River Birding Trail.
Working to establish ESL as a major landmark on several different national trails, roads, and tracks can address the image problem and could create a lot of synergy for development.
If SIUE expanded their bike sharing program to their ESL campus, and created more reasons for their students to bike back and forth, it'd put some people on that trail and increase SIUE's investment in the Illinois riverfront. Add a bike station on the Missouri Side and a possible bicycle park at the foot of the Iron Horse Trestle, and there will be people pedaling in all directions.
The Mississippi River Trail is a national trail. Think about some other national stuff that can help ESL to connect to downtown, Alton, Edwardsville, and other parts of the region: Great River Road, Amtrak, Route 66, and the arch grounds. By being national projects money can come from a wider variety of places, and ESL and downtown should both be trying to capitalize on that. Even the bird sanctuary that people seem so down on could help connect our core to the region and country as a whole via the Great River Birding Trail.
Working to establish ESL as a major landmark on several different national trails, roads, and tracks can address the image problem and could create a lot of synergy for development.
Yes, and they're running too, but only to the East Riverfront , and back. Most of those doing so are downtown residents.jaynovahawk07 wrote:^East St. Louis definitely doesn't need a skyscraper right now. I just wish they had them.
Your ideas for fixing ESTL are great, but many St. Louisans avoid East St. Louis like it's a plague. Do you see many St. Louisans from the Missouri side biking over there? If so, I'd love to see all of this implemented.
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I had this great idea that they would scrap the pavilion idea for the gateway geyser and add a museum of transportation and industry that would wrap around the fountain. It would let the trains behind the fountain go through the museum and create a great experience for visitors. It would really highlight and comliment the geyser and have great views of the arch.
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Anyone have any news or updated status on this?
edit: Just clarifying... the heritage bike trail or further changes to the park.
edit: Just clarifying... the heritage bike trail or further changes to the park.
I do not have an update on those specific plans.chaifetz10 wrote:Anyone have any news or updated status on this?
edit: Just clarifying... the heritage bike trail or further changes to the park.
Below are pictures of Malcom W. Martin Memorial Park , which I suppose was the originally planned park, prior to the more grand plan as an extension of the Jefferson National Expansion Memorial.
It's very nice actually.
I agree that its a wonderfully nice park... its just that there is rarely a reason for visitors to go there unfortunately. It needs a wholesome establishment nearby like a university to plant people there all the time and make it an attraction for activities in addition to its natural beauty. Every time I look at it on a map or in real life, I always think it would be a perfect central lawn for a college. It could still be a 100% public park with some college owned land and buildings around it. Several universities do this.
My fantasy school would include the grounds of the cargill site and casino queen. Cargill would be demo'd but casino queen could stay intact as an active hotel/casino management school. The the parking lots would be turned into school grounds/buildings and riverpark drive/metrolink station areas would be turned into mixed use development to support the student population. Then, all of a sudden, you have a nydus of awesome for East St. Louis to get on its feet.
Why isn't there a University of Illinois at St. Louis? Its as if Illinois conveniently forgot about its second largest metro region.
My fantasy school would include the grounds of the cargill site and casino queen. Cargill would be demo'd but casino queen could stay intact as an active hotel/casino management school. The the parking lots would be turned into school grounds/buildings and riverpark drive/metrolink station areas would be turned into mixed use development to support the student population. Then, all of a sudden, you have a nydus of awesome for East St. Louis to get on its feet.
Why isn't there a University of Illinois at St. Louis? Its as if Illinois conveniently forgot about its second largest metro region.
Just went to the park 2 weeks ago. Super sketchy entrance road into the park. Couches on the side of the road, half standing houses, and pot holes galore. Really weird because then 300 feet you enter the park.
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Certainly having a number of reasons to go over would increase visitation and hopefully something comes of the potential JNEM initiative.... while not exactly adjacent to the park, there is also hope that some critical parcels containing amazing archeological finds relating to the Cahokia Mounds culture that were discovered due to the Stan Span work will be purchased and that a visitors/orientation center for a new greater Cahokia Mounds group unit of the National Parks system.... that is part of the vision anyway. I think that would be really cool.JuanHamez wrote:I agree that its a wonderfully nice park... its just that there is rarely a reason for visitors to go there unfortunately. It needs a wholesome establishment nearby like a university to plant people there all the time and make it an attraction for activities in addition to its natural beauty.
Whoever is in charge of that should study the art of placemaking. There needs to be complementary elements to make such an endeavor work.
There's a public university with a 2,600 acre campus located in Edwardsville, so it would not be accurate to say that the state has forgot about the metro east when it comes to higher education. In fact, SIUE has a satellite campus in East St. Louis, less than a mile away from Malcolm Martin Park. Perhaps they could concentrate on growing that campus. Right now it sits between Malcolm Martin and the 5th and Missouri MetroLink stop, maybe the goal could be expanding in either direction so that the campus bridged the gap between those two destinations.Why isn't there a University of Illinois at St. Louis? Its as if Illinois conveniently forgot about its second largest metro region.