We voted to increase fines in Nov 2024, IIRC.
Whatever they are, they're apparently not enough. Like with the italianate row at S Broadway & Nagel, nothing we are doing is enough disincentive to leaving one's vacant building open to squatters and inevitable fires.
Already how it works. With many, mainly residential properties, where this happens, when the value of the unpaid fines outstrips the value of the property, so that the floor can't be met by reasonable qualified buyers at the quarterly Sheriff's auction, the property defaults to the owner of last resort (LRA), where those fines/fees are then wiped and LRA markets the property for sale.^ We should absolutely increase fines on vacant properties, and attach unpaid ones as liens that get paid out upon sale. Hopefully the Roosevelt can still be fixed up.
It should be flat out illegal to allow your property to deteriorate vacant and the punishment should be forfeiture of the right to that property to the city with no compensation.walker wrote:Already how it works. With many, mainly residential properties, where this happens, when the value of the unpaid fines outstrips the value of the property, so that the floor can't be met by reasonable qualified buyers at the quarterly Sheriff's auction, the property defaults to the owner of last resort (LRA), where those fines/fees are then wiped and LRA markets the property for sale.^ We should absolutely increase fines on vacant properties, and attach unpaid ones as liens that get paid out upon sale. Hopefully the Roosevelt can still be fixed up.
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Agreed ^
Even putting an insanely generous grace period (like five years) would make a huge difference. There is a butthole property owner in McKinley Heights that is single-handedly keeping the neighborhood held back with his vacant buildings. People reach out to him to buy but he doesn't even respond. I DREAM of the day that he loses control of those buildings at the corner of Geyer and Mississippi. Hopefully it happens before they just collapse.
Even putting an insanely generous grace period (like five years) would make a huge difference. There is a butthole property owner in McKinley Heights that is single-handedly keeping the neighborhood held back with his vacant buildings. People reach out to him to buy but he doesn't even respond. I DREAM of the day that he loses control of those buildings at the corner of Geyer and Mississippi. Hopefully it happens before they just collapse.
As in the case for many properties, we have to wait for the owner to die, sadly.
Hmm .. I think I know who you are referring to. They also own some business in the city that many can not understand how they are still open.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑4:52 PM - Feb 02Agreed ^
Even putting an insanely generous grace period (like five years) would make a huge difference. There is a butthole property owner in McKinley Heights that is single-handedly keeping the neighborhood held back with his vacant buildings. People reach out to him to buy but he doesn't even respond. I DREAM of the day that he loses control of those buildings at the corner of Geyer and Mississippi. Hopefully it happens before they just collapse.
^^Those 2 bldgs on the corner are for sale. Couldn't believe it when I saw them hit the market. Like...why not 15 yrs ago?
Wow I didn't realize they were up for sale! That's progress at least. 200k and 250k is a tough ask but maybe the price will go down. The location is actually pretty prime IMO, tons of foot traffic through there with people from the neighborhood crossing the bridge at Mississippi into Lafayette Park.
Union Loafers is supposedly going into the former Gather Cafe space to the south so that should increase traffic from the north as well. I really hope that whoever takes this on chooses to pursue retail (at least for the corner space)
My DREAM is a little neighborhood bar there.
Union Loafers is supposedly going into the former Gather Cafe space to the south so that should increase traffic from the north as well. I really hope that whoever takes this on chooses to pursue retail (at least for the corner space)
My DREAM is a little neighborhood bar there.
Endowment Effect delusion on display. Same thing happened to the iconic building in Fountain Park which is now rubble.walker wrote: ↑2:33 PM - Feb 032000 Geyer and 2002-2004 Geyer
One wouldn't want to buy them for the price they're asking, particularly after seeing them. The second story floor joists at the rear have collapsed into the first floor in both cases.
Did you know that Four Muddy Paws used to be in 2000 Geyer?
Historic Tax Credits are available and do help a project like this. What is the unit mix for each building ?walker wrote: ↑2:33 PM - Feb 032000 Geyer and 2002-2004 Geyer
One wouldn't want to buy them for the price they're asking, particularly after seeing them. The second story floor joists at the rear have collapsed into the first floor in both cases.
Did you know that Four Muddy Paws used to be in 2000 Geyer?
updatesTower Grove CDC has completed its rehab of 3772 Chippewa (at Bamberger), a mixed use building that has been converted to apartments.
Before:
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After:
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The press release linked above contains multiple before-and-after photos for those interested.
Before:
After:
The press release linked above contains multiple before-and-after photos for those interested.
Looks nice! 
A good, solid looking rehab of an unpretentious and very useful looking little building.
A good, solid looking rehab of an unpretentious and very useful looking little building.These corner stores are so important to the urban fabric of the city. When using public dollars to fix up buildings these should be prioritized over housing (plus they can include housing on the first floor)
IMO a block with five derelict houses and one derelict corner storefront would see increased stability from the storefront over the five houses being fixed. Not supported by anything besides my opinion, but these corner stores are cornerstones.
IMO a block with five derelict houses and one derelict corner storefront would see increased stability from the storefront over the five houses being fixed. Not supported by anything besides my opinion, but these corner stores are cornerstones.
^I'd agree, corner storefronts are seldom built anew these days. It's also striking in various places in the city where the housing looks good but the nearby commercial still rots. South Jefferson comes to mind.
Here's an interesting one in Dutchtown -- 4519 Idaho (now for sale -- see the listing here).
Before and After:
Per the Dutchtown STL Facebook post on the rehab, the house sat vacant following a 2009 foreclosure. Subsequent fire-damage/nuisance issues caused a pile-up of CSB complaints. In 2023, Dutchtown Main Streets and Legal Services of Eastern Missouri pushed a nuisance lawsuit that forced the owner to rehab the property, which has now been completed. Dutchtown STL stressed in the post the importance of calling CSB and reporting issues with vacant buildings in order to initiate this drawn-out legal process and get properties like this one back into productive use.
Also, from the listing, check out the view from the front (the old Stork Inn) --
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Before and After:
Per the Dutchtown STL Facebook post on the rehab, the house sat vacant following a 2009 foreclosure. Subsequent fire-damage/nuisance issues caused a pile-up of CSB complaints. In 2023, Dutchtown Main Streets and Legal Services of Eastern Missouri pushed a nuisance lawsuit that forced the owner to rehab the property, which has now been completed. Dutchtown STL stressed in the post the importance of calling CSB and reporting issues with vacant buildings in order to initiate this drawn-out legal process and get properties like this one back into productive use.
Also, from the listing, check out the view from the front (the old Stork Inn) --
Everything is awesome about that rehab except the door. That's an abomination.
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If I bought that house, because it's relatively cheap, I'd go ahead and put a good doorway in and remove the concrete immediately adjacent to the front wall for a front garden bed. Some of these flips I have concerns with though, especially if the home was in rough shape prior to the renovation. Sometimes the quality of the renovations are questionable. It's good this wasn't demolished though.
You'll see a sharp uptick in such renovations across Dutchtown in the coming years. Still an affordable entry point for a lot of homebuyers and centrally located. Each vacant home that's renovated, each vacant building that's fixed up, and each vacant lot that's fixed up or built on will make the area cleaner and more attractive for new residents. Getting Cleveland and the old Virginia Theater fixed up are huge pieces in the appearance puzzle just as 3305 Meramec and the Grandview Arcade are.
You'll see a sharp uptick in such renovations across Dutchtown in the coming years. Still an affordable entry point for a lot of homebuyers and centrally located. Each vacant home that's renovated, each vacant building that's fixed up, and each vacant lot that's fixed up or built on will make the area cleaner and more attractive for new residents. Getting Cleveland and the old Virginia Theater fixed up are huge pieces in the appearance puzzle just as 3305 Meramec and the Grandview Arcade are.
But you didn’t and you won’t because you’re in St. Joseph, MO
Though this is a forum with a lot of hypotheticals.
I’ll allow it.
Though this is a forum with a lot of hypotheticals.
I’ll allow it.
I'm in Kansas City and am intent on moving back to St. Louis at the completion of my lease here. So everything's an option.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑12:16 AM - Oct 17But you didn’t and you won’t because you’re in St. Joseph, MO
Though this is a forum with a lot of hypotheticals.
I’ll allow it.