urbanSTL

Would be nice if Friedman group would check on their building/close the windows/chase off any squatters before another beautiful old building collapses from rain damage/goes up in flames.

Ameren has a $38M building permit application submitted for rehab. Think they'd ever give up some land along Chouteau for development?

quincunx wrote: ↑

Mar 05, 2020

Ameren has a $38M building permit application submitted for rehab. Think they'd ever give up some land along Chouteau for development?

Would be pretty nice. Their main parking lot alone is over 17 acres, or about 8 city blocks in the downtown historic core. 

Motion to rename/start calling Downtown West something less diminutive/cooler? Any ideas?


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Downtown, Downtown West, Mid Town, Central West End … hmm.  Downtown west will be most known for Union Station and its attractions as well as the MLS stadium which MAY also host the XFL (I would rather them be at the dome to spread the love around).  Any inspirations come from these attractions?

I personally wish Downtown would just extend to Jefferson, then Jefferson to Vendeventer would be Midtown and then Vandeventer to Kingshighway would be CWE.

I would love to see the word downtown disappear outside of Manhattan. How about City Center West? West Settlement? 

^Yep. It's just downtown. Sure, it's the western edge of downtown, but I can't say as the phrase "downtown west" would have ever occurred to me I honestly feel like "official neighborhood syndrome" is a disease mostly infecting urban planning officials and developers. Fortunately, local immunity is fairly strong. We are stubborn creatures and will continue to use our local and unsexy names for things no matter how many people tack up shiny signs that say things like "64" or . . .  whatever the Kiel Center is this week.

Seriously, though. I think the average local, being from further out in the metro area, would probably think "downtown west" referred to that neighborhood around Forest Park. My mother says Forest Park is downtown . . . and I swear to god she actually lived in the city for a little while. Grew up here. Will most likely die here. Doesn't understand that downtown is the part of the city that's . . . oh . . . downtown. Way too late for New York to claim exclusive rights to a brand that's been thoroughly generic for probably a hundred fifty years at this point. Even downtown Kirkwood is logically meaningful. There's a reason that, of all the neighborhood names in town, downtown is the one I would struggle the most to capitalize. It ain't a proper name. Just a generic adjective describing the commercial center of any settlement of any size anywhere in the world.

chaifetz10 wrote: ↑

Mar 05, 2020

Honestly, how many people outside of this forum really know the difference between Downtown and Downtown west?  I've always assumed that the average STL region resident (including those way out in the burbs) knows CWE, Midtown (primarily due to SLU and Grand Center / the Fox), and then everything else East is just lumped together as downtown.  

Average STL region resident calls everything inside the City limits "downtown"

chaifetz10 wrote: ↑

Mar 05, 2020

Honestly, how many people outside of this forum really know the difference between Downtown and Downtown west?  I've always assumed that the average STL region resident (including those way out in the burbs) knows CWE, Midtown (primarily due to SLU and Grand Center / the Fox), and then everything else East is just lumped together as downtown.  

Exactly, I really don't know where the dividing line would be but  I generally considered Downtown West being defined or clustered around Wells Fargo Securities/Jefferson Ave..  Go West and you got Mid Town (SLU/Grand Center) and then CWE (Barnes Jewish) with Harris Stowe & CORTEX filling in the gaps respectively between Downtown West, Mid Town and CWE.   Go East and you have downtown.   I have a very vague general idea on neighborhoods.  Certainly don't know the boundaries.

DoToWe?

Gulch Hill Flatyards?

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑

Mar 05, 2020

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Mar 05, 2020

Gulch Hill Flatyards?

You have my vote  Downtowny McDowntownFace is a little too derivative.

It would have to be Downtownwesty McDowntownwestyface to distinguish it from actual downtown, which would otherwise have to be renamed to The West Bottom's Bend's Landing District at East St. Louis (or theWeBoBeLaDi@ESTL if you're cool).

^You are getting closer.  I vote we just drop the West and make downtown everything between Tucker and Midtown, then everything east of Tucker can be the East End, and residents shall be known as Eastenders...

How about Downtownish?

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Wells Fargo would probably count as "downtownish." (I suspect they're technically outside even the official "downtown west.")

. . . checking . . . 

Yep. Officially Tucker to Jefferson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_West,_St._Louis

So if you like officialdom Wells Fargo is Midtown . . . which just feels so completely wrong to me.

Couldn't find the Jeff Connector thread but wondering if any good tidbits or updates in the Biz Journals article.   I assumed that any hotel projects not broken ground yet including the one in Jeff Connector development plans as well as the Moxy would be on hold until some normalcy comes back to travel.

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... er-is.html

dredger wrote: ↑

Apr 14, 2020

Couldn't find the Jeff Connector thread but wondering if any good tidbits or updates in the Biz Journals article.   I assumed that any hotel projects not broken ground yet including the one in Jeff Connector development plans as well as the Moxy would be on hold until some normalcy comes back to travel.

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... er-is.html

Here's the thread for the Jefferson Connector: https://urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?p=319361#p319361

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Mar 05, 2020

We are stubborn creatures and will continue to use our local and unsexy names for things no matter how many people tack up shiny signs that say things like "64" or . . .  whatever the Kiel Center is this week.

I don't think the name "Kiel Center" is nearly as embedded in people's consciousness as "Highway 40" is as a reference to I-64. The facility at 14th & Clark is 26 years old now, but it was only named "Kiel Center" for the first six years of its existence, less than 1/4 of the building's entire lifespan. It held the name "Savvis Center" just as long, and it was called "Scottrade Center" for twice as many years. I don't think anybody under the age of 30 reflexively thinks to call it "Kiel Center", since it hasn't been named that since they were young children.

Conversely, when the current naming rights deal for the baseball stadium a few blocks to the east expires in 2026, and the Belgian company which owns those naming rights decides that they aren't nearly as wedded to civic pride as the local beer company they took over a dozen years ago, people will probably have an extremely hard time getting used to that facility being called "Centene Field".



Now bust out the torches and pitchforks.

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Mar 05, 2020

Way too late for New York to claim exclusive rights to a brand that's been thoroughly generic for probably a hundred fifty years at this point. Even downtown Kirkwood is logically meaningful. There's a reason that, of all the neighborhood names in town, downtown is the one I would struggle the most to capitalize. It ain't a proper name. Just a generic adjective describing the commercial center of any settlement of any size anywhere in the world.

"CBD" is also used in a few cities, though not nearly as common as "downtown". The area just south of the French Quarter and East of S. Claiborne in New Orleans is usually called the CBD by the locals. Interestingly, there is a neighborhood in New Orleans called "downtown", but it's not the neighborhood with all of the tall buildings and the Superdome - it's the area northeast of the CBD along the Mississippi River from the French Quarter to the 9th Ward.

A couple of points germane to little:

I don't think the name "Kiel Center" is nearly as embedded in people's consciousness as "Highway 40" is as a reference to I-64. The facility at 14th & Clark is 26 years old now, but it was only named "Kiel Center" for the first six years of its existence, less than 1/4 of the building's entire lifespan. It held the name "Savvis Center" just as long, and it was called "Scottrade Center" for twice as many years. I don't think anybody under the age of 30 reflexively thinks to call it "Kiel Center", since it hasn't been named that since they were young children.

The front half of the facility at 14th and Clark is 26 years old, but the back half is fifty years older. Or more accurately the back half of the facility at 14th and Market is  26 years old, but the front facing part of the facility is a venerable Downtown landmark of sufficient age our grandparents barely recall a time before it. (See what I did there?) And the whole kaboodle was called Kiel from the day it was built until, meh, last week. Whenever the kids who call it Saventertrade Center were born. (Not yesterday. But not much before it.) I like the current rightsholders for both halves better than the previous iterations, but . . . the darn things have gone through so many changes since this silly trend took over that my head is spinning. I call it Kiel out of self defense. For the first half of my life names mostly stuck. (Well, except for the Checkerdome.) Now buildings change names like some people change underpants. No, it's not as ingrained as 40. But maybe it should be!

Conversely, when the current naming rights deal for the baseball stadium a few blocks to the east expires in 2026, and the Belgian company which owns those naming rights decides that they aren't nearly as wedded to civic pride as the local beer company they took over a dozen years ago, people will probably have an extremely hard time getting used to that facility being called "Centene Field".



Now bust out the torches and pitchforks.

Nah, no pitchforks. I don't care to get marched to the scaffold if I can avoid it, and while these revolutions usually target the rich and powerful first, they spill over onto mouthy artists fast enough. I like living. I just hope I don't have to pass a quiz on the official local geographic and landmark nomenclature.

Just wait until the city realizes they can sell the naming rights to the riverfront. Or worse yet, when the fed realizes they could sell the naming rights to the river itself.

Note to all politicians who read this: This is not a suggestion!

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Apr 15, 2020

while these revolutions usually target the rich and powerful first, they spill over onto mouthy artists fast enough

Yep. See Mao. 

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Apr 15, 2020

Nah, no pitchforks. I don't care to get marched to the scaffold if I can avoid it, and while these revolutions usually target the rich and powerful first, they spill over onto mouthy artists fast enough. I like living. I just hope I don't have to pass a quiz on the official local geographic and landmark nomenclature.

Just wait until the city realizes they can sell the naming rights to the riverfront. Or worse yet, when the fed realizes they could sell the naming rights to the river itself.

Note to all politicians who read this: This is not a suggestion!

I have a cousin up in Milwaukee, and he says that the locals are extremely irritated about the name change their 20 year old baseball stadium is going to go through next year: in 2021, Miller Park becomes American Family Field. I have to admit, not all corporate names on stadiums and arenas are created equal. "Miller Park" is no less a symbol of some company's willingness to shovel a bunch of money to a sports team owner to slap their name on a building than "American Family Field", but the former definitely sounds less flagrantly commercialized than the latter.