urbanSTL

And don't forget to tip when you order take out from a restaurant. Certainly not 20%, but if your order comes to $9, leave an extra buck.

When a favorite restaurant that doesn't normally do carry-out, does carry-out for you, the tip had better be far in excess of 20 percent.

As someone working in the industry right now, here's my opinion, and how I generally tip:



If you receive good service, it's 20% and up. My opinion on the matter is that you should always leave an extra couple bucks over 20% for several reasons. #1, servers work hard. It's not easy work, no matter what restaurant you work in. When they have less table time, they usually have more tables, so the server is working hard. Leaving 20% plus a couple bucks is always considered a good move, because you will be rewarding the server for providing you with good service, and you will be remembered. And it's literally two more dollars is all you have to leave to be remembered.



If I drop a check, and it's $100, and the table leaves me $20, that's what I expect. One reason is because I make sure to give my tables good service, so I expect to be tipped at that. Anything less, and I'm disappointed. But if they leave $22, that's a good tip. If it's a $20 check, and you leave 6 bucks, two extra dollars, it's a good tip. $50 dollar check, $12 dollar tip is a good tip. I won't complain about getting $10, but the next time you come in, I'm gonna remember that you tipped me well. Then I might end up forgetting to charge you for little things...like coffee, beverages...what is in my control.



Also, something else that should be considered, is the time you are dining, and what is going on around you, and how long you eat. Don't, i repeat, DON'T go into a restaurant at lunch, have a business lunch, take an hour or more, and leave 20%. You wanna have a meeting? Do it at your office, the bar, but if you take up that table you'd better be willing to double tip for the lost business that server is experiencing. The only way servers make money at lunch, is by turning tables. Your $4 tip doesn't mean squat if they've got two other tables, and you're going to sit through what would be two turns of the table.



As usual, if my service is inadequate, I don't expect 20%. But as a server, I know when I've given good and bad service. Last friday, I had two tables going while I was working in the bar at Simply Fondue, as bartenders, we were getting our butts kicked because of all the alcohol that servers were ringing in, plus bar service, plus we (two of us) each had two tables. One of my tables could see me at the bar, the other couldn't see me. Both tables received, by my estimation, slightly sub par service. Not bad, just not great. The table that couldn't see me working in the bar, left me 15%, the table that could see me, left me two dollars over 20%.



It seems as though most people here are pretty savvy when it comes to tipping. But there are a lot of people who don't know. Unless you've held the job as a server, or at the very least, worked in a restaurant, then don't assume you know how hard the work is.



I know this much, I'm looking forward to school starting, so I won't be working at the restaurant as much.

Trent, I'm asking this as a person who appreciates the jobs waitpersons do and almost always tips 20% or more; I have no problem with tipping as compensation for service. Don't take it the wrong way, but this is what fired up some on stltoday. It's just an observational, non-loaded, non-baiting question.



Not that long ago, 15% was considered the standard for good service. Even in guidebooks that I have from 2006 onward, it still is. I'm not saying it was a hard and fast rule, or that it wasn't exceeded or any number of reasons, but it was a guideline that if the service was good -- not barely passable, but friendly and as efficient as possible -- the guidelines was 15%. This always assumes the diner should take into consideration the things you mention: busy night, lots of bar orders, whatever.



It seems like it crept up over the years (hence, "tip creep")..to where 15% was a 'minimum' not to be broken unless under the most egregious circumstances, 18% was for good service. Now I'm hearing more and more 18% as a minimum, 20% is for the good, adequate service mentioned above, and about 22+% is for very good service. The waitpersons seems to be putting that "minimum" bar at 20%, good service at 25%, and 30+% for very good service.



So my question is, how and why has the percentage gone up so much, particular when quoted by those in the business? Is it mainly self interest?



Two answers I've gleaned so far between their rants:



1) Cost of living has gotten more expensive. My answer to that would be, the bill at the restaurant has gotten more expensive at about the same rate, and thus a percentage tip would follow.



2) That's the way it is; if you can't afford it, stay home. My answer to that would be, I can afford 20%, I could technically afford a 100% tip; but I think the old guideline is just about appropriate, so it's not a matter of whether I can afford it, or some bizarre notion that those who question the 'new guideline' somehow disdain those working in the restaurants or tipping in general.



I guess the question is: the increased percentage 'guidelines' generally seem to come from those in the business, so is there any particular reason? For example, if the average number of tables a waitperson works has gone down in the past few years, i.e. each table tends to get more attention than x years ago, that would be a very tenable reason why the percentage should be higher.



Thanks for insight.

trent wrote:As someone working in the industry right now, here's my opinion, and how I generally tip:



If you receive good service, it's 20% and up. My opinion on the matter is that you should always leave an extra couple bucks over 20% for several reasons. #1, servers work hard. It's not easy work, no matter what restaurant you work in. When they have less table time, they usually have more tables, so the server is working hard. Leaving 20% plus a couple bucks is always considered a good move, because you will be rewarding the server for providing you with good service, and you will be remembered. And it's literally two more dollars is all you have to leave to be remembered.



If I drop a check, and it's $100, and the table leaves me $20, that's what I expect. One reason is because I make sure to give my tables good service, so I expect to be tipped at that. Anything less, and I'm disappointed. But if they leave $22, that's a good tip. If it's a $20 check, and you leave 6 bucks, two extra dollars, it's a good tip. $50 dollar check, $12 dollar tip is a good tip. I won't complain about getting $10, but the next time you come in, I'm gonna remember that you tipped me well. Then I might end up forgetting to charge you for little things...like coffee, beverages...what is in my control.



Also, something else that should be considered, is the time you are dining, and what is going on around you, and how long you eat. Don't, i repeat, DON'T go into a restaurant at lunch, have a business lunch, take an hour or more, and leave 20%. You wanna have a meeting? Do it at your office, the bar, but if you take up that table you'd better be willing to double tip for the lost business that server is experiencing. The only way servers make money at lunch, is by turning tables. Your $4 tip doesn't mean squat if they've got two other tables, and you're going to sit through what would be two turns of the table.



As usual, if my service is inadequate, I don't expect 20%. But as a server, I know when I've given good and bad service. Last friday, I had two tables going while I was working in the bar at Simply Fondue, as bartenders, we were getting our butts kicked because of all the alcohol that servers were ringing in, plus bar service, plus we (two of us) each had two tables. One of my tables could see me at the bar, the other couldn't see me. Both tables received, by my estimation, slightly sub par service. Not bad, just not great. The table that couldn't see me working in the bar, left me 15%, the table that could see me, left me two dollars over 20%.



It seems as though most people here are pretty savvy when it comes to tipping. But there are a lot of people who don't know. Unless you've held the job as a server, or at the very least, worked in a restaurant, then don't assume you know how hard the work is.



I know this much, I'm looking forward to school starting, so I won't be working at the restaurant as much.

The one thing you are spot on about is taking up a table for any extra length of time and not compensating for it. This can kill a whole shift, especially if it's something stupid like a two-top taking up a four-top. I waited tables for 10+ years as it was a great job while in school, great second job for a while after school, and the social benefits didn't hurt either. But the one thing you learn in this business is to expect the unexpected. When you deal with the general public, all bets are off. The guy who you think will stiff you tips 30% and the guy who you just know is going to hook you up, is cheaper than cheap. So you give the best service you can to everyone and it all evens out at the end of the day.

More restaurants are going with smaller workstations for servers, I would say that would be a pretty major factor in the tip % going up.



But if you (not you personally, but this guidebook, per se) consider 15% to be adequate, then lets examine it a little more closely. I'm going to use Simply Fondue as an example, despite the fact that waiting at a fondue restaurant is unlike any other kind of wait service, but the prices are always applicable elsewhere.



Considering these basic premises apply: 1. A Full Time Server is working 5 days a week, and 5 shifts (since SF is only open for dinner). 2. Paychecks usually zero out based upon taxable income, so the only take home money for servers is cash tips.



Restaurant Week is a busy week for all restaurants involved. You get a three course meal for $25. That means that each person you serve is going to be at least $25. At 15%, that's a $3.75 tip, at 20%, it's $5. If you consider a busy night for a server at Simply Fondue, you'll serve 15-20 covers, so lets put that at 18, for median purposes. At 15%, you make $67.50. Do that 5 times a week and you make $337.50, or $1350 a month. Now that means that you had a server sales number of $450, of which 13.50 a night (3%) is going to the bartender and busser. Over 20 workdays a month, that's $270, which drops your monthly income to $1080. That's a robust $12,960 a year.



Now obviously this doesn't take into effect, alcohol sales. But the average per person average at Simply Fondue over Restaurant Week (remember, where ever night was like a Saturday night) was probably in the $30-32 range. Server sales now at $576, gross tips now at $86.40, net tips now at $69.12. Yearly, that's $16,588.



Even if you negate the fact that the average customer was receiving a $15 discount, while only losing a salad this week, you can bump up that per customer cost to $40, which is the traditional 4 course meal. That would make their income $17,820 a year.



Remember, this is at a fine dining restaurant, where you expect very good service, and are paying a high price for your food and drink because of it. Also, you generally would think that you'd be waited on a well-groomed server. If 15% were the standard, then the standard server would be making under $18K per year. I don't know if you've ever tried to make it through a year with $18K as your salary, but I can tell you, as somebody who will make roughly about $24K through the school alone this year, I'm struggling, I can't imagine making $6K less. And the only debt I have is a car payment.



If 15% were the standard, then the standard of service would have to change for most restaurants. The reason is that the server would have to increase volume of customers, which will only lead to poorer service.



So even if you say that 20% isn't applicable if the place isn't as nice as Simply Fondue, then I'd say how much are you paying for your food? If you go to a bar and grill, and pay $8 for a cheeseburger, fries, and get a soda/iced tea for $2, that's $10 bucks total. $1.50 per customer at a place like this, a server would have to serve over 50 people to make 80 bucks. But at $2, that drops to 40.



Sorry to be so long-winded, but whatever person wrote this guidebook, they've obviously never tried to work in a restaurant. And to give you an idea of the people I work with, we aren't talking about the uneducated public either.

I'm gonna try to get this back on topic.



Do I get the feeling that a fair amount of places that did the WR viewed it as a burden instead of an opportunity to grow their business by exposing themselves to people who wouldn't normally dine at their establishments? Do some establishments view a busy weeknight as a chore instead of a way to make some money when normally those tables would be going empty?



Look I've worked in the industry and sometimes after a hellish weekend you need a slow Monday or Tuesday to recharge. But if the situation presents itself, why not take advantage of it?

I know we definitely look at it as another marketing tool. But the restaurant doesn't make a whole lot of money that week. The people that came in and ordered their meal with glasses of water were basically zero sum for the restaurant.



It's something of a combination. You get your butt worked off, and as a server, you're doing essentially the same amount of work per table, but your PPA (per person average) is $15 less, at least.

Thanks for the insight Trent. I will argue that it's not just "a guidebook" that refers to the 15% rule, but as innov8ion points out, it's kind of standard and has been as far as I can remember. Really the minimum-20% rule (which is what I typically follow anyway) is mainly quoted by those in the industry; you did a good job of explaining where you are coming from.



I do have a few more questions..when you talk about a shift, how long is that, i.e. from the time you arrive until you leave? Also, I know the base wage is meager, but do most places pay the same? What does a place like SF pay per hour, if anything? When you say "Paychecks usually zero out based upon taxable income"...does that mean your base wage is essentially taken in taxes, so the tips quoted are net amounts?

I quite often tip 20%... but if the service sub par, I'm not scared to leave much less!!!

bprop wrote:Thanks for the insight Trent. I will argue that it's not just "a guidebook" that refers to the 15% rule, but as innov8ion points out, it's kind of standard and has been as far as I can remember. Really the minimum-20% rule (which is what I typically follow anyway) is mainly quoted by those in the industry; you did a good job of explaining where you are coming from.



I do have a few more questions..when you talk about a shift, how long is that, i.e. from the time you arrive until you leave? Also, I know the base wage is meager, but do most places pay the same? What does a place like SF pay per hour, if anything? When you say "Paychecks usually zero out based upon taxable income"...does that mean your base wage is essentially taken in taxes, so the tips quoted are net amounts?

The length of a shift can vary from place to place. Because the restaurant industry isn't held to the same standards that the rest of the workforce is held to, i.e. no 15 minute breaks, 30 minute lunches, etc.



I've worked in a total of 6 different restaurants, so I'll give you the averages that I've personally experienced. I've never worked at a late or all night diner. The crummiest place I worked for was TGI Fridays, and Simply Fondue was probably the most upscale, so it's a pretty broad spectrum.



If you work a lunch shift, and say, the restaurant opens at 11, they have servers who open the restaurant, and get there at 9:30-10:30. Then they have servers who get there at 11, and closers come in from 11:30-12. Usually the openers work until the main lunch rush is over, then there's the side work, and resetting of your station that is required before you get out. So they are usually done by 2. The next group is usually done by 2:30-3, and the closers stay until about 4-4:30. So a lunch shift is generally shorter. 4.5 hours maybe.



A dinner shift is a different animal. Because it depends on the night of the week, and it depends on the business times of the restaurant. Most places know what to expect nightly, and they know when they can afford to cut servers from the floor. An opening server on say, a Monday night can reasonably expect to get out of the restaurant by 8:30 or 9. Openers generally are going to come in by 3:30 (yes, if it's a lunch and dinner place, the closers for lunch, and openers for dinner overlap). If it's a busy Saturday night, you can count on being there until 11 as an opener. That's generally when restaurants stop seating tables, some will keep seating till midnight. But like I said, even if they stay open later, they know generally what sort of business to expect.



That's why when you decide to go to Applebees at 12:30 in the morning, you are taking a chance of having truly crappy service, because they've generally cut all but maybe one or two servers, and if they get a deluge of tables (which is bound to happen with any late night dining place), they're usually screwed. But most restaurants view that as okay, since they will generally have the stronger servers as closers, to ensure they don't completely piss off customers should it become busier than expected.



Closers may get there anywhere between 5-6, usually no later than that, because the first rush of dinner hits at 6, so you want your full staff there by that time. Closers are what they are, they close the restaurant. So the last people to walk out of a place are usually a bartender, a manager, and a server (or two depending on the night).



As for wages, servers make $3.25 these days. Restaurants are supposed to ensure that servers make at least minimum wage, so after they report tips, the taxes are factored out, usually resulting in a check that is next to nothing, if not zero. So that means that the money that you make from the restaurant, is usually taken, almost entirely, by the government for taxes. So yes, if you make $100 in a night, that's usually a net earning. If customers pay with a credit card, you are required by the software systems used in restaurants to claim all of those tips, and you are supposed to claim all of your cash tips as well. It's actually getting harder and harder to fudge the numbers for servers, as most people are paying with credit cards these days. So you are taxed on what you earn, not what your wage is. And if you make all cash tips, they tax a minimum % of your sales, which I think has gone up, but I'm not sure since I'm a good person, and claim what I make.



Then, most people don't realize the tip share deal. That bussers and bartenders get 3 percent of a servers sales. So if you leave a 20% tip, that server keeps 17%. Not a complaining, as a bartender also, just stating a fact.



As a bartender, now that's a completely different issue. Bartenders make more in hourly wages, and in most places, generally have lower sales averages, and when there's only one, work from open to close.

I'm sorry, but 20% should be more than adequate, unless you're some "high rolling big tipper", that eats at 4 star restaurants all the time, I don't think there's any reason to tip higher than 20%. At the rate that it has increased, where will it be in 10 years, 40%? And I tip 20% 99% of the time.

On the other hand, I hate when people think they get to play "judge" when dining and will reward 20% ONLY if the server works his/her ass off. 18% should be the minimum unless something awful happened.

I round numbers as best as I can. Math was never my best subject. If I pay $9.78 for a meal there's no way in hell I'm going to calculate 18% out of that. Usually, if its $9.78 as an example, I'll just pay $12 and tell them to keep the change or something. If I tip too much, its probably me just not wanting to deal with the math.

JCity wrote: On the other hand, I hate when people think they get to play "judge" when dining and will reward 20% ONLY if the server works his/her ass off. 18% should be the minimum unless something awful happened.

Call me the judge



the tip should reflect the service...

Trent ..my head hurts after reading ur post .. Just go with the 20% ..



If the server only shows his face 2 or 3 times in the hour plus ur there ..10% and let them know.



If the service is great or she's just really great looking then kick it up a notch to 25% ..



two other points.. 1. ALWAYS round up.. and 2. someone buy shimmy a 10.00 meal ..

JCity wrote:I'm sorry, but 20% should be more than adequate, unless you're some "high rolling big tipper", that eats at 4 star restaurants all the time, I don't think there's any reason to tip higher than 20%. At the rate that it has increased, where will it be in 10 years, 40%? And I tip 20% 99% of the time.

That's pretty much my take. I guess I've been living in a cave, as I was unaware of tip creep. Unless things go horribly wrong, I will leave no less than an 18% tip. Most of the time I leave 20%, and I have left at least 25% when the service has been exceptional (as I did on my recent visit to Simply Fondue, coincidentally). I've always thought 25% was more than fair for superb service, but after reading trent's posts I will consider bumping that top figure up to 30%, especially at restaurants where I can expect a premium dining experience with attentive and professional service.



And trent, I'll give you my address so you'll know where to send that SF gift certificate. I bought another one last week, but you can't have too many.

I sorta started this didn't I....



when I said the tip shouldn't be based solely on the price of the meal...(some pages back).....sometime 20% isn't enough if the meal was $10 and the service was superb (and you stayed for an hour).....sometimes 20% is too much for a $100 meal and the service was trash (what are you tipping for-the chef prepared the food). The percentage should fluctuate depending on service (among other factors I evaluate when leaving a tip-there are so many)...I pay very close attention to details....it is hard to say the standard for all meals at all restaurants is a certain percentage....the percentage should be different depending on the circumstances



The problem I had with the tip is that it was already on my bill and determined by the restaurant and not by my experience...I never said I had a problem with the percentage...I might have tipped more...my beef was the restaurant telling me that I had to pay a certain amount...that is for me and my party to decide and we are more than generous when the service is par...cheers,

Shimmy wrote:I round numbers as best as I can. Math was never my best subject. If I pay $9.78 for a meal there's no way in hell I'm going to calculate 18% out of that. Usually, if its $9.78 as an example, I'll just pay $12 and tell them to keep the change or something. If I tip too much, its probably me just not wanting to deal with the math.

I'm with you. If I have to calculate an 18% tip, especially after having a few drinks, my head might explode. That's why I always tip 20%. Sometimes I wonder how I made it through statistics and the other analytical classes I had to take in school.

Guilt trips aren't necessary. If restaurant workers don't like the wages and tips they make, they can find a different job that pays better. In fact, many probably supplement their incomes with these types of jobs just as Trent does.



As for taxes, I'm taxed on everything I make so I have no problems with equity. And as for tipping practices, I'll stick with the advice from an etiquette professional like Emily Post.

innov8ion wrote:If you can calculate 20%, 18% is fairly simple. Just divide the bill by five. Then take that value and move the decimal to the left once. Subtract the first value by the second and you've simply calculated an 18% tip. Or use the calculator in your cell phone.

You lost me.