Downtown Residential Market Thriving

STLEnginerd · PostSep 24, 2014#2512014-09-24T21:51+00:00

The question there is, what is the cost? There is a plethora of parking lots surrounding Busch Stadium that could probably be purchased for a lot cheaper than the garages.

Exactly. People hate the Ballpark Garages but if they were tall buildings it would simply mean new parking structures or surface lots would have to be built to satisfy stadium demands. Let the garages be and focus on the surface lots which could be consolidated into a single parking structure to satisfy the gameday capacity issues, and then the rest can be developed for higher uses.

I would like to see conversion to retail on the lower corners though as i believe but otherwise I would let it be. The surfacve lots are what is choking downtown.

Redbrickcity · PostSep 25, 2014#2522014-09-25T00:34+00:00

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews ... ew-620.jpg

a rendering of the proposed tower.

framer · PostSep 25, 2014#2532014-09-25T16:00+00:00

Just to be clear, no tower has been proposed. The owners of the property are just trying to entice buyers with a vision of what could be.

roger wyoming II · PostOct 27, 2014#2542014-10-27T15:19+00:00

I took off Intrada Lofts and Chemical Building from downtown residential projects and added the 1515 Pine building... that maybe is two dozen units or so but not really sure. Also added the City View rehab of Building 50 which I believe had some but low occupancy prior to the rehab. So I'm coming up with about 400 units recently completed plus the City View rehab, about 300 under construction and 300 planned.

Recently Completed

Gallery 515 apartments - 515 Olive (102 units; Millennium Center 11 floor apartment conversion)
Lacassian Lofts -- renovation of 2200 Locust (27 units + ground floor commercial)
CitiParc at Pine - 1531 Pine (149 senior housing units; was vacant Plaza Square Building)
Tower OPOP - 411 N. 8th (128 units + ground floor restaurant)
City View (Plaza Square Building 50) rehab and new garage (approx. 120 units)
406 units recently completed + City View rehab

2014 Expected Construction Starts with post-2014 completion

Under Construction
Arcade-Wright - 800 Olive (282 units + Webster U Gateway Campus))
Marquette Building - 304 N. Broadway (10 condos converted from old Y space)
1214 Washington mixed-use (5 units + first floor commercial)
297 units under construction

Planned
720 Olive - 111 units (partial residential conversion of office building; offices consolidated to lower floors)
1014 Locust - The Alverne Building (81 units) (2016 start)
1900 Pine (87 units)
1515 Pine (unknown # estimated less than 30?)
279+ units planned

Keep an Eye On - Potential Projects Bandied About
Possible BPV residential tower
Possible residential tower by Drury at Washington and Third (currently surface parking lot)
2nd Possible residential project in Laclede's Landing (unknown address)
Possible purchase of 2nd Plaza Square building for senior housing[/quote]

MatthewHall · PostOct 27, 2014#2552014-10-27T16:13+00:00

roger wyoming II wrote:I thought I'd re-bump this earlier post. On the State of Downtown thread several have commented that leasing appears to have slowed down recently. I took the Alverne off the Under Construction list and moved it to Planned as Hayden said he'd put that one off to around 2016 when he hopes to have the newly acquired 720 Olive Building done.

roger wyoming II wrote:Here is a link to my Downtown 2014 Projects list
http://urbanstl.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 20#p230120

Here is a list of residential I've separated out... I'm counting almost 800 units recently completed or under construction and over 350 more planned not including intriguing other possibilities such as BPV or Laclede's Landing towers:

Recently Completed

Gallery 515 apartments - 515 Olive (102 units; Millennium Center 11 floor apartment conversion)
Lacassian Lofts -- renovation of 2200 Locust (27 units + ground floor commercial)
CitiParc at Pine - 1531 Pine (149 senior housing units; was vacant Plaza Square Building)
Tower OPOP - 411 N. 8th (128 units + ground floor restaurant)
406 units recently completed

Expected Completions 2014
Plaza Square improvements, including new garage (intended to create high occupancy rates)

2014 Expected Construction Starts with post-2014 completion

Under Construction
Arcade-Wright - 800 Olive (282 units + Webster U Gateway Campus))
Marquette Building - 304 N. Broadway (10 condos converted from old Y space)
1214 Washington mixed-use (5 units + first floor commercial)
378 units under construction

Planned
720 Olive - 111 units (partial residential conversion of office building; offices consolidated to lower floors)
The Alverne Building (1014 Locust) (81 units)
1900 Pine (87 units)
Chemical Building - 721 Olive (approx. 120 units)
2035 Lucas "Intrada Lofts" (57 units)

375 units planned

Keep an Eye On - Potential Projects Bandied About
Possible BPV residential tower
Possible residential tower by Drury at Washington and Third (currently surface parking lot)
2nd Possible residential project in Laclede's Landing (unknown address)
Possible purchase of 2nd Plaza Square building for senior housing

So, those complaining they can't rent apartments Downtown may be affected more by competition from these new unites rather than perceptions of crime.

roger wyoming II · PostNov 04, 2014#2562014-11-04T18:22+00:00

wabash wrote:I love all the enthusiasm for new construction going on here. I also really like the Roberts Tower and the how it turned out. But there is a ton of inventory of old buildings that are either un-used or under-used that could be converted to residential in the coming years. I hope that residential conversions continue for years to come, as the office market is completely moribund. Here are a few examples of buildings that could be available for conversion after the current round of proposals are completed:

The office/retail/garage proposal for Municipal Courts seems to have stalled:

The building to the left of SLU Law:

I love this post; some of these are data centers, etc. and we have a few more potential cadidates out there so I'll try to update soon.

PostNov 05, 2014#2572014-11-05T18:52+00:00

^
Potential Residential Conversions
Downtown West
Jefferson Arms last proposed as mixed-use with 300+ residential units:

Butler Bros. Building marketed for sale as mixed-use with 300+ luxury units:

Across from Butler Bros. on Locust:

Also near Butler Bros.:

(Wabash comment) The office/retail/garage proposal for Municipal Courts seems to have stalled:

Underutilized city courts building on Olive:

Downtown
505 Washington:

1015 Locust, across from The Alverne at 1014 Locust:

Wabash suggested the The Globe Building; I believe it is at least partially a data center currently but it certainly could use a façade clean up and leased-up first-floor retail:

A Wabash suggestion that has since been taken by U-Haul; undergoing window replacement:

I'll post some additional ones beyond Wabash's later.

PostNov 05, 2014#2582014-11-05T19:22+00:00

^ The office building at 1015 Locust is actually from 1921. The bridge to the adjoining building is a give-away that its not a post-war structure. Space lists at $11 per sq. ft. on loopnet.

PostNov 05, 2014#2592014-11-05T21:43+00:00

Here's a few more potential conversions:

Downtown

Railway Exchange:

Mercantile Library:

Lasalle Building:

917 & 921 Locust:

Stouffer Hotel:

Downtown West

Roberts Shoe

Monogram Building (old CPI)

(Most pics from Built Saint Louis)

Also the Commercial Letter building is for sale and could be a residential conversion but I don't have a good pic.

PostDec 13, 2014#2602014-12-13T21:32+00:00

Dropped off 177 planned units after tossing the Chemical and Intrada Lofts projects but the newly announced 1515 Pine will add maybe twelve or so. Also, over 150 units were recently renovated at the CityView complex (Plaza Square #30) which had low occupancy but I think some of those were recently occupied.

So I have approx. 400 units recently completed + the City View renovation, 400 under construction and 180 or so planned.

Recently Completed

Gallery 515 apartments - 515 Olive (102 units; Millennium Center 11 floor apartment conversion)
Lacassian Lofts -- renovation of 2200 Locust (27 units + ground floor commercial)
CitiParc at Pine - 1531 Pine (149 senior housing units; was vacant Plaza Square Building)
Tower OPOP - 411 N. 8th (128 units + ground floor restaurant)
City View renovation (Plaza Square Building 30) (approx. 150 units)
1214 Washington mixed-use (5 units + first floor office)
411 units recently completed + CityView renovation

Under Construction
Arcade-Wright - 800 Olive (282 units + Webster U Gateway Campus))
Marquette Building - 304 N. Broadway (10 condos converted from old Y space)
720 Olive (111 units)
403 units under construction

Planned
1900 Pine (87 units)
1515 Pine (unknown but maybe 12 or so units)
The Alverne Building (1014 Locust) (81 units) (2016 heavy construction start)
168 units + unknown 1515 Pine + additional City View renovation

Keep an Eye On - Potential Projects Bandied About
Possible BPV residential tower
Possible residential tower by Drury at Washington and Third (currently surface parking lot)
2nd Possible residential project in Laclede's Landing (unknown address)
Possible purchase of 2nd Plaza Square building for senior housing

downtown2007 · PostDec 13, 2014#2612014-12-13T23:33+00:00

"So I have approx. 400 units recently completed + the City View renovation, 300 under construction and 300 planned"

I am sorry but those numbers are so weak. We need to put more pressure on the Partnership.

roger wyoming II · PostDec 14, 2014#2622014-12-14T03:07+00:00

^ We certainly could use more announcements.

I did make an edit as 720 Olive should have been in the under construction column, so it is more like 400 units recently completed, 400 under construction and 180 planned. Plus whatever is going on at CityView.

True_dope · PostDec 14, 2014#2632014-12-14T15:10+00:00

I don't see downtown having more then 500 unites under construction till some major changes happen downtown like noticeable gains in jobs, more metro-link or street car, all new side walks and getting rid of the one way streets. Not saying all has to happen but I think at lest one would help a lot.
Also I don't think a BPV residential tower would not be an indicator of how good or bad downtown demanded is it would be in a league of its own.

roger wyoming II · PostDec 14, 2014#2642014-12-14T19:52+00:00

^ While I agree all those things would help spur projects, I think we can do 500+ units a year as things stand.... in fact the 87 units of the 1900 Pine project should get underway in early 2015, which will put us just under 500 and I'm sure there will be one or two others that get underway at some point next year.

The demand side seems to be doing okay and I think it will increase even more as downtown reclaims a bit of that sense of being where the action is at.... for a variety of reasons it lost a bit of that momentum but I'm optimistic that is starting to turn around. My main concerns are on the supply side and why developers aren't moving faster.... on the historic rehab side, it may be that our past success has left pretty much only more difficult candidates left to finance and on the new construction side, I think there is a bit of question of whether there is sufficient demand to meet the generally higher required rents.

PostDec 21, 2014#2652014-12-21T15:17+00:00

Finally an article on a possible local luxury unit glut in the making....

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 988da.html

I agree with just about everything in here.... I think the region can absorb what is being built currently; however, what's already in the pipeline in Clayton & CWE might make it difficult for a significant number of additional new construction luxury projects to move forward until there is a period of absorption.

The article doesn't specifically talk about downtown, but I think downtown will continue to be dominated by HTCs and LIHTC's subsidizing projects in the near-term. But I do think there is room for near-term exceptions for new construction such as a BPV tower and a modest Drury tower in the Landing (30 stories seems excessive but who knows).

wabash · PostDec 22, 2014#2662014-12-22T04:53+00:00

I find the title of the article: "St. Louis faces luxury apartment glut" inappropriate and misleading. It's certainly interesting seeing what Mills, Sansone, and a multi-family housing broker have to say on the state of the industry, but none of them say that St. Louis is facing a glut. I guess "St. Louis faces luxury apartment supply consistent with growing demand and developer expectations" just doesn't have the same punch. But that's pretty much what the article says.

urban_dilettante · PostDec 22, 2014#2672014-12-22T05:55+00:00

^ your version isn't counterproductively disparaging enough. obviously.

rbb · PostDec 22, 2014#2682014-12-22T16:57+00:00

wabash wrote:I find the title of the article: "St. Louis faces luxury apartment glut" inappropriate and misleading. It's certainly interesting seeing what Mills, Sansone, and a multi-family housing broker have to say on the state of the industry, but none of them say that St. Louis is facing a glut. I guess "St. Louis faces luxury apartment supply consistent with growing demand and developer expectations" just doesn't have the same punch. But that's pretty much what the article says.

That was my thought with the article as well. What's described in the article is a trend of slow and steady growth in both occupancy and rates; nothing extreme that indicates supply or demand is artificially inflated, nor are there any warning signs to speak of. They even mentioned that the demographic who is most likely to rent is growing in this region, and that home ownership is still more of a challenge for many that it's been in years.

There's an increasing number of people in the region who are likely to rent. Fewer people are likely to choose home ownership because of more restrictive loan requirements. Average rates are rising just slightly above inflation. Current occupancy rates continue remain above national rates (94.4% according to this). And the headline is "OMG THERE MIGHT BE A GLUT OF LUXURY UNITS!"?

This was an interesting and informative article with a headline and opening paragraph that was nothing but click-bait. Get past that and there's good news for the region. IMO.

-RBB

roger wyoming II · PostDec 22, 2014#2692014-12-22T17:10+00:00

^ The issue is on the luxury side rather than on rentals in general.... it would have been better for the headline to reflect better the possibility of a glut in the making rather than an assertion we will face one, but it certainly is possible some developers will be burnt in the coming years. Mills is quoted as saying some will be.

beer city · PostDec 22, 2014#2702014-12-22T17:14+00:00

urban_dilettante wrote:^ your version isn't counterproductively disparaging enough. obviously.

Receive data
Interpret data
Ignore data
Write catchy fear inducing headline

repeat

TheNewSaintLouis · PostDec 23, 2014#2712014-12-23T00:03+00:00

I would suggest theres a bit over building in Clayton however i think theres plenty of room for downtown for drury and BPV however if a tower is to ever come to fruition in BPV it'll be a hotel apartment/condo office building would probably be appropriate. I really don't think the city is marketing downtown all that aggressively and if a new 30+ sleek apartment building was announced and there were legit renderings of it i think it would be a success. What i love to see is a few high-rise buildings on the riverfront those would have a better probability of success than i can say in other parts of downtown. I'd think they'd be surprised

PostDec 23, 2014#2722014-12-23T00:05+00:00

Also downtown has assets that Clayton simply can't offer. I think its very clear downtown is completely under served and under valued.

jstriebel · PostJan 02, 2015#2732015-01-02T19:19+00:00

1900 Station Plaza (which I think has been referenced before as 1900 Pine—probably the actual address) is moving forward for income-controlled residential.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 7f69d.html

downtown2007 · PostJan 02, 2015#2742015-01-02T20:34+00:00

I wish they were market rate apartments. I am not sure why developers are so bearish on market rate when occupancy rate are over 90% and rents are stabile and high.

roger wyoming II · PostJan 02, 2015#2752015-01-02T21:16+00:00

^ with the Station Plaza project getting underway, we'll have about 500 units under construction downtown with about 300 subsidized and 200 market-rate. (Plus whatever is going on at Plaza Square complex.)

I'm hopeful we'll be hearing news of a couple more market rate projects this year and I'd love to get to the point where we're at 500+ of such units every year.

Downtown Residential Market Thriving

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