Does anyone know what is going on at Kraft and Clayton Ave. in Dogtown? In the past month a vacant five building apartment complex was torn down and the lot cleared.



Just curious.

I wish I knew as well. I live in the building which shares a property line with what used to be there. They leveled it all in one day, and had it completely cleared in 2 or 3.



I have to guess they're going to be putting up another big complex next to Park Clayton (would result in the most $$), but I have no clue.

Hopefully, whatever goes in will be better looking than Park Clayton - that complex is butt ugly.

DeBaliviere wrote:Hopefully, whatever goes in will be better looking than Park Clayton - that complex is butt ugly.

LOL! I live in Pk Clayton.



It's not nice to look at for the "feel" and consistency of the neighborhood, and nothing exciting from the outside, but actually quite nice and well kept-up on the inside.. My apt. does me just fine while I'm deciding where to buy eventually..

^Just curious, TruBlu: How's the soundproofing in your building? Do you hear your neighbors much? I'm currently going crazy living in a duplex with a too-thin common wall.

Framer wrote:^Just curious, TruBlu: How's the soundproofing in your building? Do you hear your neighbors much? I'm currently going crazy living in a duplex with a too-thin common wall.

Yeah.. it's not exactly what I'd like it to be..



I don't find myself bothered on a daily basis or anything, but if someone's playing music with bass next door, you can hear it. Every now and then I can hear someone walking around above me too. But not like you can hear people talking or anything, though.

Is there any new news on this? I pass by it everyday on the way to work, and it looks like there is some activity finally going on again.

Anyone have a status on the remaining development at Kraft and Clayton in Hi-Pointe? It's looked this way for at least 2 months.




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^ not sure of details of project timeline/status, but the building permit was issued several months ago.

The builder reportedly had a problem with the contractor who was pouring the foundation. They are hiring a new contractor. The building will be very comparable to the other two on the site when finished.

Thanks,

Scott Ogilvie
24th Ward Alderman

The buzz that Dogtown had a few years ago seems to have died down.

I love Dogtown, but sadly, I have to agree with you. Any news on that development site further East on Clayton that fell through with Apted Brothers?

I think Dogtown and Hi-Pointe are some of the best locations to live for someone who works outside of the city, wants to stay cheap, but still have the long list of amenities the central city has. Why new development hasn't caught on is beyond me. The neighborhood is incredibly walkable yet a good portion of the business center is vacant. It's unfortunate.


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Too many of the grey hair type hampering development. If I remember, projects were on the table but killed due to NIMBY's


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Dogtown may be a case of while not declining, it is hard to keep up momentum with multiple entertainment/commercial hubs in a growing, but not exactly sizzling core region.... tough to compete with Grove, Cherokee, Maplewood, S. Grand, Macklind, etc. etc. in terms of drawing outsiders; the key here probably is more internal population density to support more neighborhood retail/services.

I just moved out of dogtown this past weekend, but I had been there for two years. I loved it. It was my favorite place to live so far in the St. Louis region (I have moved about every two years for the last ten years). That said, I think it is pretty insular and static. If you live there you love it and it has enough restuarants and bars to keep you there at night, but it isn't bringing in many outsiders. The homeowners there seem pretty set in their ways and don't want things to change. I think the school they are turning into apartments is a good start, but it really could have used the apartment building they were planning on the old lumber yard to inject some energy into the center of it and help sustain more bars and restaurants. I agree with STLrainbow on his points.

I agree that there is a lot of competition between "hot" neighborhoods and those that aren't doing poorly, just remaining flat. I used to live in Southampton/STL Hills and recently moved closer to S. Grand. A few years ago houses sold much faster in Southampton. While that neighborhood is still doing well, it has slowed down a bit, and I have heard its due to many folks doing the exact same neighborhood switch I did. Either way, these are all great neighborhoods, and I'll bet the future is bright in the long run for all of them.

^ yeah, I think all of the neighborhoods that have been stable the past decade or so will remain so and continue to improve... and a good sign in my neck of the woods over here in TGS is that I'm seeing several neighbors move out to less stable n'hoods, e.g. one couple selling their home and rehabbing in Dutchtown and a couple of renters moving over to BPWest after a rent increase. Hopefully that kind of thing happens more and more while those who want to stay can find affordable options.

And back to Dogtown, I guess the future of the Zoo's South Campus site will be a big determinant of whether big changes come there; otherwise I suppose it'll continue to do it's thing. Would love some imaginative thinking for the Hampton and Manchester strips, too.

I think I've posted this before, but the oft-mentioned apartment building on Clayton didn't happen because the developers bailed. The project had the zoning variance that was required, and while it was controversial, the neighborhood association supported it with some conditions. The narrative that residents killed it isn't true.

All of the vacant commercial space, save one property, is owned by one property owner. The problem here is not lack of demand, its a bad property owner who can afford to carry land for a long time.

Beyond that, areas that are in historic districts, or buildings that are individually eligible for historic tax credits, are going to continue to attract more redevelopment that other areas because the incentives are valuable. Dogtown has very little of that, but on the plus side we have lots of normal, homeowner investment in their own properties. We also have almost no LRA owned parcels, and foreclosed properties turn over pretty quickly without incentives. Its basically a normal, mature and stable real estate market, with a couple owners waiting to cash in, and the Zoo development on the horizon.

It doesn't bother me that we have a lot of long time residents - I think cities need to be places for people of all ages. The typically small home size means many places are affordable for retired residents to stay in, but the values are high enough that developers are slow buy up cheap properties for new construction. Around the periphery of the neighborhood, developments like the Highlands, which has high occupancy and rents, means we're adding people nearby. Dogtown has avoided boom and bust cycles for its whole history, so I think its in good shape, it just isn't likely to be a place with booming real estate development.

Scott Ogilvie
24th Ward Alderman

^ agree with everything Scott said. Dogtown is stable and I think the reason if hasn't "boomed" is because there isn't much vacant land (save the zoo land) and the people there take care of their homes. You don't see many (if any) in disrepair that someone could come in, buy cheap and tear it down to put in a big development. It's a great neighborhood where people watch out for each other and are for the most part happy with how things are going there. It's a nice neighborhood feel in the city (at least the part of it I lived in). It is just going to be slow to evolve because it is so established. But I don't think that is a bad thing.

If we are being picky, I wouldn't mind seeing a wine bar in the old Felix's. But I'll save that for another day.

Did Felix's close?


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downtown2007 wrote:Did Felix's close?


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Nope. Just moved across the street.


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downtown2007 wrote:Did Felix's close?


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No, it moved across Tamm to the old Latitude 26(?) space in late 2013/early 2014.

The lot, 6300 Clayton, next to Seamus, is vacant because the owner wants substantially more than a market price for the property, at least 200% of market price, and by some estimates more like 400%, and he can afford to carry the vacant land until someone pays that premium. Its been the same situation for a decade. He also owns the vacant buildings across the street, and its the same deal. Yes, its pretty frustrating. The only way to force someone out of a property who is paying their taxes is eminent domain, which is a road we aren't going down. So we wait. On the City side, we're more than happy to entertain any other developer there, and we haven't said no to anything. The issue is no one has been willing to pay the listed price for the property.

Edit: We did say "no" to using that property for overflow car storage for a dealership.

Scott Ogilvie
24th Ward Alderman