I wish the article was a bit more thorough/clear. I think they are saying that because of the extension of the tracks past the original boundaries (Were they extended?), they would need to have a new vote on the district, and this time they would have to adhere to the new voting rules. Would be a shame to lose the $22M even though I don't like the trolley route they picked.
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Elsie was a wonderful champion of good causes in the past. But she is nearing 90 years old, and today I seem to hear a lot of negativity and criticism of elected officials. She was the one who tried to prevent the Chuck Berry statue from going in on Delmar, objecting to his being a felon and to the lack of a public discussion or vote.
Ms. Glickert, you had a wonderful legacy, but please understand that we have public officials today that we elect and entrust to manage these sorts of decisions for us. Just like we did back when you were in office. Now it's their turn at the wheel.
Ms. Glickert, you had a wonderful legacy, but please understand that we have public officials today that we elect and entrust to manage these sorts of decisions for us. Just like we did back when you were in office. Now it's their turn at the wheel.
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So does this kill the project because of the October 31st deadline? If so, this is very sad.
No, there would have to be a negative ruling or injunction or something like that. Shame they'll have to pay for lawyers though.
According to the RFT they got the paperwork to the Feds in time
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyr ... uction.php
According to the RFT they got the paperwork to the Feds in time
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyr ... uction.php
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More background...
The two biggest voters for the Trolley Line were:
1. Joe Edwards. He owns Blueberry Hill, the Pageant, the Pin-Up Bowl, and the Moonrise Hotel, all four of which are on Delmar. Joe's the biggest supporter of the Trolley and hands-down the foundaiton of the U City Loop for the last, what, thirty years? And while I'm not 100% certain of his home address, I'm pretty damn sure he's a U City resident.
2. Washington University, which owns the majority of student rental housing along the Delmar Loop. This includes the new multistory construction on Delmar at Eastgate. Wash U students are the largest demographic population to be found in the Loop most times of the day, most days of the year, and especially those who live proximate to Delmar. Non-residential properties proximate to the Loop are also owned by Wash U, including the North Campus north of Delmar and east of Skinker. I would also assume Washington University is the largest single taxpayer in U City from all the properties they own around the Delmar Loop.
However, the Danforth Campus of Washington University is not based in U City. Wash U is technically based in unincorporated STL County and part of STL City. And while they own most of the buildings along the Delmar Loop, Brookings Hall and the school's administrative offices are not.
Therefore, the lawsuit's logic contends, Washington University should have no say in the Trolley or the Delmar Loop.
So we understand this, the lawsuit contends that Washington University should have no say in these affairs despite being the largest landowner... and probably the largest payer of U City taxes... and the foundation for the Delmar Loop's foot traffic, business patronage, and proximate residency. They contend Wash U is the supposed evil monied outside interest oppressing the U City constituency. As well, the lawsuit contends that those residents who live in Wash U-owned properties proximate to the Delmar Loop should have their votes thrown out, because they say so. Instead, it should be the right only to U City residents who don't rent from Wash U, like those 90 year olds who live in the old folks homes along 170. Since Wash U represented votes for the Trolley, the lawsuit contends, it's a violation of the US Constitution.
Oh, and the plaintiffs also don't think the East Loop and the West Loop should have anything to do with each other, because the East Loop is in STL City (and these U City busybodies would have no say what goes on outside of U City).
And this is why we can't have nice things.
The two biggest voters for the Trolley Line were:
1. Joe Edwards. He owns Blueberry Hill, the Pageant, the Pin-Up Bowl, and the Moonrise Hotel, all four of which are on Delmar. Joe's the biggest supporter of the Trolley and hands-down the foundaiton of the U City Loop for the last, what, thirty years? And while I'm not 100% certain of his home address, I'm pretty damn sure he's a U City resident.
2. Washington University, which owns the majority of student rental housing along the Delmar Loop. This includes the new multistory construction on Delmar at Eastgate. Wash U students are the largest demographic population to be found in the Loop most times of the day, most days of the year, and especially those who live proximate to Delmar. Non-residential properties proximate to the Loop are also owned by Wash U, including the North Campus north of Delmar and east of Skinker. I would also assume Washington University is the largest single taxpayer in U City from all the properties they own around the Delmar Loop.
However, the Danforth Campus of Washington University is not based in U City. Wash U is technically based in unincorporated STL County and part of STL City. And while they own most of the buildings along the Delmar Loop, Brookings Hall and the school's administrative offices are not.
Therefore, the lawsuit's logic contends, Washington University should have no say in the Trolley or the Delmar Loop.
So we understand this, the lawsuit contends that Washington University should have no say in these affairs despite being the largest landowner... and probably the largest payer of U City taxes... and the foundation for the Delmar Loop's foot traffic, business patronage, and proximate residency. They contend Wash U is the supposed evil monied outside interest oppressing the U City constituency. As well, the lawsuit contends that those residents who live in Wash U-owned properties proximate to the Delmar Loop should have their votes thrown out, because they say so. Instead, it should be the right only to U City residents who don't rent from Wash U, like those 90 year olds who live in the old folks homes along 170. Since Wash U represented votes for the Trolley, the lawsuit contends, it's a violation of the US Constitution.
Oh, and the plaintiffs also don't think the East Loop and the West Loop should have anything to do with each other, because the East Loop is in STL City (and these U City busybodies would have no say what goes on outside of U City).
And this is why we can't have nice things.
gone corporate wrote:More background...
The two biggest voters for the Trolley Line were:
1. Joe Edwards. He owns Blueberry Hill, the Pageant, the Pin-Up Bowl, and the Moonrise Hotel, all four of which are on Delmar. Joe's the biggest supporter of the Trolley and hands-down the foundaiton of the U City Loop for the last, what, thirty years? And while I'm not 100% certain of his home address, I'm pretty damn sure he's a U City resident.
2. Washington University, which owns the majority of student rental housing along the Delmar Loop. This includes the new multistory construction on Delmar at Eastgate. Wash U students are the largest demographic population to be found in the Loop most times of the day, most days of the year, and especially those who live proximate to Delmar. Non-residential properties proximate to the Loop are also owned by Wash U, including the North Campus north of Delmar and east of Skinker. I would also assume Washington University is the largest single taxpayer in U City from all the properties they own around the Delmar Loop.
However, the Danforth Campus of Washington University is not based in U City. Wash U is technically based in unincorporated STL County and part of STL City. And while they own most of the buildings along the Delmar Loop, Brookings Hall and the school's administrative offices are not.
Therefore, the lawsuit's logic contends, Washington University should have no say in the Trolley or the Delmar Loop.
So we understand this, the lawsuit contends that Washington University should have no say in these affairs despite being the largest landowner... and probably the largest payer of U City taxes... and the foundation for the Delmar Loop's foot traffic, business patronage, and proximate residency. They contend Wash U is the supposed evil monied outside interest oppressing the U City constituency. As well, the lawsuit contends that those residents who live in Wash U-owned properties proximate to the Delmar Loop should have their votes thrown out, because they say so. Instead, it should be the right only to U City residents who don't rent from Wash U, like those 90 year olds who live in the old folks homes along 170. Since Wash U represented votes for the Trolley, the lawsuit contends, it's a violation of the US Constitution.
Oh, and the plaintiffs also don't think the East Loop and the West Loop should have anything to do with each other, because the East Loop is in STL City (and these U City busybodies would have no say what goes on outside of U City).
And this is why we can't have nice things.
I don't understand how this can directly affect/stop the project though. It sounds like the district was created with adherence to this Missouri Transportation Development Act.
It would shame if things fall apart and Loop Trolley looses out on the funding grant. However, I think a comparable loss for the loop. U City and Wash U might be the opportunity to add fiber optic high speed internet line during the trolley's construction. In other words, U City might lose out on what they could get in addition to the trolley above and beyond other metro communities.
As far as what might happen if it fails. My speculation would hope for.
1) Resources, knowledge be applied to going forward with Central Corridor Street car line. Having the Metrolink executive step in and right the ship on the technical side is beneficial to any future street car efforts. Maybe Joe Edwards will put his future efforts and development experience to a street car line within city limits.
2) The folks who want to develop fiber optic high speed internet don't give up. Instead, they look at the Central Corridor streetcar line as a possibility that could offer even bigger potential and returns on investment.
3) Wash U future development efforts will go towards TOD at Delmar and Forest Park Stations instead of phased linear development along the trolley line. Loop trolley is nice but at end of day would take decent TOD development at current metrolink stations in its place.
Another way to look at it. Time for Slay, Joe Edwards and Wash U and others to embrace a better transit proposal if a judge gives this lawsuit any merit or standing.
As far as what might happen if it fails. My speculation would hope for.
1) Resources, knowledge be applied to going forward with Central Corridor Street car line. Having the Metrolink executive step in and right the ship on the technical side is beneficial to any future street car efforts. Maybe Joe Edwards will put his future efforts and development experience to a street car line within city limits.
2) The folks who want to develop fiber optic high speed internet don't give up. Instead, they look at the Central Corridor streetcar line as a possibility that could offer even bigger potential and returns on investment.
3) Wash U future development efforts will go towards TOD at Delmar and Forest Park Stations instead of phased linear development along the trolley line. Loop trolley is nice but at end of day would take decent TOD development at current metrolink stations in its place.
Another way to look at it. Time for Slay, Joe Edwards and Wash U and others to embrace a better transit proposal if a judge gives this lawsuit any merit or standing.
They're throwing up everything to see what sticks. How are deliveries impacted any more by the trolley than by the rest of traffic? Somehow they did it prior to 1960!
StL Business Journal - Second Loop Trolley lawsuit says University City violated Sunshine Law
StL Business Journal - Second Loop Trolley lawsuit says University City violated Sunshine Law
Glickert said the new hours are problematic because deliveries to businesses would become impossible.
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog ... ml?ana=twt"I'm perplexed by the whole thing," Edwards said in an interview. "We have gone out of our way for St. Louis to create something positive... It's so easy to tear down St. Louis and so hard to build it up."
Don't get the logic that deliveries become impossible. There's parking lots and alleys behind the majority of those businesses.
That's something I never understood. Why is deliveries even allow on the main strip? Use of alleys and side streets should be enough. Maybe create unloading zone on side street with no parking allowed from 3am to 9am.pat wrote:Don't get the logic that deliveries become impossible. There's parking lots and alleys behind the majority of those businesses.
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I think some of the plaintiffs are afraid of University City becoming too enmeshed with Wash U. In their fears, Wash U will soon want naming rights over the municipality.
Wait ... oh ... never mind about that.
Wait ... oh ... never mind about that.
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https://www.stlbeacon.org/#!/content/33 ... tus_update
Here is a good summery of all the news thats been going on with the trolley.
Here is a good summery of all the news thats been going on with the trolley.
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Last night on Fox2 news, the plaintiffs spokesperson said that their goal is not to derail the Loop Trolley.....reallly????? 
Joe Edwards responded by saying that these concerns were addressed a long time ago and he cannot see
why these individuals are bringing this up at this late stage in the game.
Hopefully, (assuming all parties want the trolley) they can sit down and work this out, quickly and out of court!
Joe Edwards responded by saying that these concerns were addressed a long time ago and he cannot see
why these individuals are bringing this up at this late stage in the game.
Hopefully, (assuming all parties want the trolley) they can sit down and work this out, quickly and out of court!
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One of the justifications for the lawsuit was that they didn't want the trolley in the historic district. Seriously? Are they aware that what are now "historic districts" have had trolleys running through them for most of their history?
Any lawyers on the forum? Can a judge just throw out the lawsuit?
This has already been blessed by the circuit court. They have also had 5 years to voice their opinion. This has been approved for federal dollars. I don't think the Feds would approve funding for a project that didn't follow the correct processes. Can this be thrown for those reasons?
This has already been blessed by the circuit court. They have also had 5 years to voice their opinion. This has been approved for federal dollars. I don't think the Feds would approve funding for a project that didn't follow the correct processes. Can this be thrown for those reasons?
Hope Joe is right and it gets thrown out.
To the point of only helping property owners east of Rosedale (I guess limit really) at the cost of U City people, it's fragmentation at its best.
http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/wil ... louis-loop
To the point of only helping property owners east of Rosedale (I guess limit really) at the cost of U City people, it's fragmentation at its best.
http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/wil ... louis-loop
With Gaslight Square, the revitalization of Skinker/DeBaliviere, and the work X3 is doing on Washington Ave. in the northern CWE, one can hope that perhaps 20 years into the future, the streetcar can be extended down Delmar all the way to Grand Center, with accompanying development.
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If the plan was to follow Delmar to Grand Cneter I would have been more supportive in the first place. People talk about how street cars spur development and then propose putting them in areas where development is already happening so they can take credit for it.With Gaslight Square, the revitalization of Skinker/DeBaliviere, and the work X3 is doing on Washington Ave. in the northern CWE, one can hope that perhaps 20 years into the future, the streetcar can be extended down Delmar all the way to Grand Center, with accompanying development.
If they do spur development, Loop to Grand Center is the IDEAL route
^It's about 3 miles from DeBaliviere to Grand. How much might that have cost? Subtract the but on DeBaliviere and add three miles. Make it all double-tacked? $40M more?
In other news... do you know that Cincinnati's mayor and city council just voted to halt construction of the streetcar line in its tracks (literally)??? Yep, that's right-- the line is half-built-- tracks in the ground and everything-- and the city council just voted to freeze the funds which in effect kills the entire project. My god, I feel so sorry for any progressive, urban-minded resident of that pitifully backwards city. Cincy makes St. Louis look like Amsterdam. What a bunch of idiots. The new mayor is a looney Tea Bagger, and he won with 58% of the vote. And the majority of the city council agrees with him! What is wrong with that city?????
I had similar thoughts when I heard that. Cincy is light years behind St. Louis when it comes to transit and this will likely set them back another decade. If they cant even get a modest streetcar line built in one of America's coolest historic districts "Over the Rhine" , it doesn't bode well for a regional light rail system. I definitely feel sorry for young progressives that worked so hard to get that project started. This will definitely hurt Cincinnati's image and redevelopment efforts going forward. I think its just further proves that St. Louis is a lot more progressive than many similar mid sized metros. St. Louis has plenty of progressive ideas we just have a post industrial economic malaise that is preventing us from getting a lot of it done. If we were growing like Denver or Dallas we would probably have a larger light rail system both cities.stlgasm wrote:In other news... do you know that Cincinnati's mayor and city council just voted to halt construction of the streetcar line in its tracks (literally)??? Yep, that's right-- the line is half-built-- tracks in the ground and everything-- and the city council just voted to freeze the funds which in effect kills the entire project. My god, I feel so sorry for any progressive, urban-minded resident of that pitifully backwards city. Cincy makes St. Louis look like Amsterdam. What a bunch of idiots. The new mayor is a looney Tea Bagger, and he won with 58% of the vote. And the majority of the city council agrees with him! What is wrong with that city?????