^ I would be extremely surprised if Forest Park Forever has had any discussions with Joe Edwards about expanding this thing. The third car is apparently going to be ready by April...hence the possibility they may be able to restart service. Not sure why Forest Park would need to step in there...and any maintenance on the cars or infrastructure is going to be through funds raised by the TDD. Forest Park Forever isn’t going to touch this thing with a ten foot pole.
^ Have to agree to disagree on Forest Park Forever thoughts. The advantage for them is that they are not a political or government entity. So a lot more to flexibility to think outside of the box and any donors that are convinced of such and such good idea are probably well connected and carries some weight in politically. Another way to look at, from Forest Park Improvements, to Arch Grounds, to Veterans memorial downtown, a lot gets done for better or worse via public donations via heavy hitters that seem to take some of the politics out of it. Best choices? always up to debate. Forest Park Forever getting involved w loop trolley? up for even more debate
Second, the advantage for Loop Trolley at this moment might be the fact that it is a stand alone entity with room to seeks grants and financial outside of the box. So if I was Joe Edwards, I would bang on any door for any money anywhere to clear the capitalization costs off the books (tracks, wires, trolleys, barn) and push the loop trolley to see if they can operator Thurs to Sunday within existing TDD revenues and without a fare box.
Final thought, the more I think about it the more I think Metro not taking over outright is better for city and county transit in the long run. However, I don't see why Metro couldn't give Loop Trolley a price to operate and maintain tracks/wires, x dollars a day/week/month or however it is package to operate Thursday to Sunday from Easter to New Years Establish a volunteer org to clean and maintain the trolleys and barn during non operating days.
Second, the advantage for Loop Trolley at this moment might be the fact that it is a stand alone entity with room to seeks grants and financial outside of the box. So if I was Joe Edwards, I would bang on any door for any money anywhere to clear the capitalization costs off the books (tracks, wires, trolleys, barn) and push the loop trolley to see if they can operator Thurs to Sunday within existing TDD revenues and without a fare box.
Final thought, the more I think about it the more I think Metro not taking over outright is better for city and county transit in the long run. However, I don't see why Metro couldn't give Loop Trolley a price to operate and maintain tracks/wires, x dollars a day/week/month or however it is package to operate Thursday to Sunday from Easter to New Years Establish a volunteer org to clean and maintain the trolleys and barn during non operating days.
Hearses & Bandwagons - Understanding the Loop Trolley: It’s a Mirror
https://hearsesandbandwagons.info/under ... -a-mirror/The grand prize the naysayers were looking to win was this: if the Trolley project faltered, that would put us in the comfortable St. Louis position of celebrating failure, bad-mouthing our fellow citizens who had the audacity to try to contribute and accomplish something, and then allowing them to proclaim triumphantly, “See, I told you that would never work!”
HopCat in the Loop just announced they are closing permanently. I post that news here because I remember the press release for HopCat saying they chose STL and the Loop because of the vision of the trolley. While some Loop businesses blamed the trolley for their closings, HopCat credited it with their opening. That chapter is over.
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That is a huge bummer. Only real beer bar in the Loop. Unfortunately this is probably the first of many restaurants and bars to just call it a day for good.
Well it is a chain. And with a ton of things going on externally, just doesn't make financial sense when you could be without the majority of your revenue for probably what could be months. I'd imagine. I'm sure it won't be the only location as time rolls by.
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Well, that is sad. I quite enjoyed their crack fries. It just means it will be a place I visit when visiting family after the virus has passed.NateM___ wrote: ↑Mar 16, 2020HopCat in the Loop just announced they are closing permanently. I post that news here because I remember the press release for HopCat saying they chose STL and the Loop because of the vision of the trolley. While some Loop businesses blamed the trolley for their closings, HopCat credited it with their opening. That chapter is over.
Call it dancing on its grave but because a drop in tax revenues, drop in ridership, and the trolley concept is/was a folly to begin with the trolley will not be resurrected anytime soon. Now give people work and tear it all out and return our streets to the residents and businesses along the follys tracks.
This fall the virus will return potentially with a vengeance cementing the end of the trolley and to the pollyanna commentators; the MLS Stadium will not be completed anytime soon
This fall the virus will return potentially with a vengeance cementing the end of the trolley and to the pollyanna commentators; the MLS Stadium will not be completed anytime soon
Ah yes, for all the businesses being frequented during a pandemic.
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Are they still testing car three at all? Saw they were earlier this month.
I see the grave dancing, but don't see the case for tearing out the tracks. Construction is over. The streets have already been returned to residents and businesses.
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what does this even mean? how were the streets taken from them? during construction? how do you think tearing out the tracks would be any different? really, you just want the street returned to impatient drivers so they (you?) can speed down Delmar without having to—gasp—drive the speed limit behind the trolley.hebeters2 wrote: ↑Apr 01, 2020...return our streets to the residents and businesses along the follys tracks.
God forbid any driver who actually stops to let pedestrian use the mid-block crosswalks; I can't count the number of times folks behind me angrily honk their horns.
Is this a joke?hebeters2 wrote: ↑Apr 01, 2020Call it dancing on its grave but because a drop in tax revenues, drop in ridership, and the trolley concept is/was a folly to begin with the trolley will not be resurrected anytime soon. Now give people work and tear it all out and return our streets to the residents and businesses along the follys tracks.
This fall the virus will return potentially with a vengeance cementing the end of the trolley and to the pollyanna commentators; the MLS Stadium will not be completed anytime soon
What a ridiculous post.
I bet hebeters2 has not even rode the trolley system. The system is really fun to ride and on the streets it looks even cooler. I bet everyone in places like new Orleans just "Hate" those damn trolley's because they go nowhere and cost a fortune to maintain. LOL.
The Loop Trolley has been given way too much bad press, businesses blaming it for loss of biz during construction - *really*? (after carefully reading and studying most of the closures during that time period - most were on the brink of bad biz, closing anyway or demise in some way. Most were running well into financial issues before the trolley construction - WHICH BTW - NEVER closed Delmar completely. How do I know, I pulled most of the details from the owners themselves and also looked at their tax records at city hall (UCity - not STL-City) and almost all had not paid back taxes and/or were making very little profit margins to begin with. AND then ALAS- another business would open in the same space within months. Wasn't like the loop was empty at all.
and now the blow that all infrastructure (especially public transit) is feeling - and that is Covid19 outbreak.
The Loop Trolley is not going anywhere - even if it has to be mothballed for a time. To even think about "ripping" out the rails is absolutely insane, irrational and irresponsible thinking at large.
The Loop Trolley is like an abortion - those that are pro - will always be pro -- those against it will always be anti. There just seems like there is no middle ground on the poor system.... not sure why.
Ah. April fools! almost had me triggeredhebeters2 wrote: ↑Apr 01, 2020Call it dancing on its grave but because a drop in tax revenues, drop in ridership, and the trolley concept is/was a folly to begin with the trolley will not be resurrected anytime soon. Now give people work and tear it all out and return our streets to the residents and businesses along the follys tracks.
This fall the virus will return potentially with a vengeance cementing the end of the trolley and to the pollyanna commentators; the MLS Stadium will not be completed anytime soon
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Full disclosure, this is my project, was just coming by to post it and I'm glad I was beaten to the punch . Look forward to hearing what you guys think.
. Look forward to hearing what you guys think.Well produced, through I'll throw a flag for showing the pic of Vandeventor and Chouteau. No interviews?
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^Nice! That all seems pretty solid. If you want some music for something like that PM me. 
And yes, "make the damn thing free to ride!" Amen!
And yes, "make the damn thing free to ride!" Amen!
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I figured the Vandeventer and Chouteau picture would be a good representation of the dense inner city to compare with the relative emptiness of the Loop at the time.
Also @symphonicpoet, I may just take you up on that offer!
Also @symphonicpoet, I may just take you up on that offer!
Great video. Which will be an amazing video in 30+ years as you've really captured this moment in time for the Loop.
Thanks Harv. Well done.
Thanks Harv. Well done.
Feast Magazine is reporting the Melting Pot in the Loop has closed permanently. The Melting Pot was only 1 of a couple of Loop businesses to pay for advertising on the trolley. With the Craft Alliance moving soon, the west side of the Loop is becoming embarrassing.