Your friend thinks she’s ok so we should all be cool with her completely abandoning her job and being the worst prosecutor ever in the history of the city? Seriously? That’s your argument for Gardner? “Some people like her that none of you know!” A vote for Gardner was and is a vote to murder city residents. Sorry if the facts don’t jive with your current brain dead political leanings.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jul 26, 2021^If you're looking for a reasonable discussion you're going about it the wrong way. Your post feels deeply condescending and by all appearances your mind is long made up. Okay. That's fine. I'm busy trying to figure out what I think and feel about this. And you've said nothing useful for that. I voted for Gardner. A good friend who is a fairly high-powered attorney informs me she's an honorable individual with her heart in the right place, but she's in over her head. I can believe that. That's a useful assessment. And it's a much nicer way to approach the situation. It allows a little dignity. It gives an out. It even permits reasonable disagreement. Honestly, the factual bits aren't even necessarily different from what you're alleging. But the tone is completely different and much more productive. Please god start using your heart. It's not too late to save this city.
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Holy hell that's an unhinged rant if I've ever seen one. Not saying your point is wrong (at least, the one regarding Gardner needing to go), but you're going about presenting your case in just about the worst way possible. Replying to the same post multiple times with flip-flopping attitudes between responses and tangential quips all throughout is like, Unabomber levels of deranged.
Lmao wow. Dude, since you want to criticize tone, lets talk about yours. You are literally just trying to find cover for a national embarrassment, and that isn't an exaggeration. Kimberly Gardner has completely failed at her job. That wouldn't matter much if she was some secretary at some *hole municipality in jeffco or whatever, but shes the head prosecutor for a city with a serious violent crime problem. She has literally bungled a BDSM rape case against a Governor, allowed/told the cops to tamper with evidence against the lawyer gun couple, mismanaged her office at the lower levels the entire time she's been there (ask how the criminal trial I was on the jury for in 2018 went, holy sh*t), and now apparent forgeries are happening, caseloads are being assigned to pregnant women on leave (including major cases like the David Dorn case), and....most seriously......violent criminals are being allowed to completely walk because her office, the prosecutors office of a major American city, can't even be assed to show the ***** up. AND if you believe victims families, her office is trying to strongarm them into keeping quiet!symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jul 26, 2021^If you're looking for a reasonable discussion you're going about it the wrong way. Your post feels deeply condescending and by all appearances your mind is long made up. Okay. That's fine. I'm busy trying to figure out what I think and feel about this. And you've said nothing useful for that. I voted for Gardner. A good friend who is a fairly high-powered attorney informs me she's an honorable individual with her heart in the right place, but she's in over her head. I can believe that. That's a useful assessment. And it's a much nicer way to approach the situation. It allows a little dignity. It gives an out. It even permits reasonable disagreement. Honestly, the factual bits aren't even necessarily different from what you're alleging. But the tone is completely different and much more productive. Please god start using your heart. It's not too late to save this city.
You don't get to criticize and tone police people who are upset about this. This is very serious sh*t, and you're over here trying to give Kim Gardner a "little dignity", because according to your pal, her "heart is in the right place". If that was true, she'd stop directing energy at telling victims families to shut up, and start directing energy at......wait for it......fixing her office.
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^ Damn that was on point.
See, you guys need me around here to spice it up. Otherwise, it's a real snooze fest. It's as excruciating as watching The View.
See, you guys need me around here to spice it up. Otherwise, it's a real snooze fest. It's as excruciating as watching The View.
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Aesir, Lee Harvey and others: THANKS!!! Some on this site are so beholden to others like them they can’t objectively criticize. Anyone here who defends KG is a complete disingenuous farce. Kim is a horrible person who happens to be way in over her head. Simple as that.
Newstl2020 thank you too. And I agree, when all the leftists get together in lock-step this site is boring AF.
I'd absolutely, 1000% support something like Bell assuming totalitarian control over the city prosecutors office. I think that'd be awesome for a number of different reasons. But that's a complete pipe dream and won't happen, also for a number of different reasons.
We have two halfway-realistic options for fixing this situation, either the state stepping in and doing something, idk exactly what. It probably wouldn't be great, but it also would probably be an improvement over what is going on now. It also probably won't happen, short of her getting disbarred somehow.
The other option, the far better option, is her being recalled by the citizenry of the city of St. Louis, and replaced with someone better. But thats what really grinds my gears about this-that won't happen. Even after everything that has happened, a serious scandal that should have resulted in her removal seemingly every. damn. year. she's been in office, people still come out of the woodwork to deflect and do damage control for her.
The damage control should be aiming to fix the damage this is doing to the city of Stl. Instead we get pathetic "but but but muh Roooooooorda". If "Jeffco" Roorda told you NOT to jump off a bridge, would you jump off a bridge?
She was re-elected AFTER the Greitens clownshow. By a big-time margin too. That's a joke. That was our best shot at fixing this, and her fanbase came out hard and delivered her a big win. A recall effort is not going to be successful for the exact same reason.
So no, we just have to deal with the next 3ish years of this. Thanks guys, and yes, I do blame you if you voted for her the second time. This is your fault. Its time you own up to it.
We have two halfway-realistic options for fixing this situation, either the state stepping in and doing something, idk exactly what. It probably wouldn't be great, but it also would probably be an improvement over what is going on now. It also probably won't happen, short of her getting disbarred somehow.
The other option, the far better option, is her being recalled by the citizenry of the city of St. Louis, and replaced with someone better. But thats what really grinds my gears about this-that won't happen. Even after everything that has happened, a serious scandal that should have resulted in her removal seemingly every. damn. year. she's been in office, people still come out of the woodwork to deflect and do damage control for her.
The damage control should be aiming to fix the damage this is doing to the city of Stl. Instead we get pathetic "but but but muh Roooooooorda". If "Jeffco" Roorda told you NOT to jump off a bridge, would you jump off a bridge?
She was re-elected AFTER the Greitens clownshow. By a big-time margin too. That's a joke. That was our best shot at fixing this, and her fanbase came out hard and delivered her a big win. A recall effort is not going to be successful for the exact same reason.
So no, we just have to deal with the next 3ish years of this. Thanks guys, and yes, I do blame you if you voted for her the second time. This is your fault. Its time you own up to it.
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IMHO The best and definitely most likely way Gardner is replaced is if she loses reelection.
Right now, there are no viable opposition candidates who have come out publicly against her. The only ones I've privately heard of being considered viable are that way only because of "identity politics", i.e. they're all progressive liberal women of color who are also prosecutors.
Right now, there are no viable opposition candidates who have come out publicly against her. The only ones I've privately heard of being considered viable are that way only because of "identity politics", i.e. they're all progressive liberal women of color who are also prosecutors.
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^It's so far out from the next election I'm not even sure who's running against her yet. I feel certain she'll be vulnerable, and I doubt very seriously the opposition will need to be a woman of color. Just a credible (liberal) attorney. A woman of color will have an advantage, but I doubt very much Gardner will win reelection. I suppose it's possible she steps down, but I'd be a bit surprised.
And as to the responses to my post, I'm not trying to give Gardner cover or dignity. I'm trying to give myself cover and dignity. If you want to engage in a reasonable debate with a Gardner voter (which I was) then you've got a better chance of doing so if you don't cast personal aspersions at all of us. You can gaslight my tone until you're blue in the face newstl, aesir, and leeharvey, but I'm not the one asking you why you voted the way you did or how you plan to vote next time. So . . . grow a heart. Also grow a pair. It takes some big stones to face the possibility that you were wrong. Try it sometime. I assure you, it ain't easy. And unless you're willing to admit you might be wrong there's no conversation to be had.
And as to the responses to my post, I'm not trying to give Gardner cover or dignity. I'm trying to give myself cover and dignity. If you want to engage in a reasonable debate with a Gardner voter (which I was) then you've got a better chance of doing so if you don't cast personal aspersions at all of us. You can gaslight my tone until you're blue in the face newstl, aesir, and leeharvey, but I'm not the one asking you why you voted the way you did or how you plan to vote next time. So . . . grow a heart. Also grow a pair. It takes some big stones to face the possibility that you were wrong. Try it sometime. I assure you, it ain't easy. And unless you're willing to admit you might be wrong there's no conversation to be had.
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When did UrbanStl become a repository for knuckle dragging anti-vaxing blue backing boot licking death culters? Shame
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^I don't think it really is. But a few people are so angry right now they've lost the ability to play nice with others. To be completely fair, the plague has taken a heck of a toll on all of us. And Facebook and internet comment sections have as well. And lately, we've all spent way too much time on social media forgetting how to be nice to our neighbors. Had an actual in-person greet and eat with a few neighbors with whom I vociferously disagree Sunday. They're my neighbors and I genuinely like them, but boy is it hard to have a conversation about politics right now. And law enforcement has become so very political lately. Cripes I wish I knew how to address that. Crime is a real problem. Law enforcement overreach is a real problem. Legal outcomes have been deeply biased against the poor and folks not of the Anglo persuasion. All of these things can be true at the same time. They might even contribute to one another. And together . . . they make it hard to fix stuff.
Well said, sir!symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jul 27, 2021^I don't think it really is. But a few people are so angry right now they've lost the ability to play nice with others. To be completely fair, the plague has taken a heck of a toll on all of us. And Facebook and internet comment sections have as well. And lately, we've all spent way too much time on social media forgetting how to be nice to our neighbors. Had an actual in-person greet and eat with a few neighbors with whom I vociferously disagree Sunday. They're my neighbors and I genuinely like them, but boy is it hard to have a conversation about politics right now. And law enforcement has become so very political lately. Cripes I wish I knew how to address that. Crime is a real problem. Law enforcement overreach is a real problem. Legal outcomes have been deeply biased against the poor and folks not of the Anglo persuasion. All of these things can be true at the same time. They might even contribute to one another. And together . . . they make it hard to fix stuff.
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Who wants to be a cop?
https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2021/narratives/police-academy/the-new-recruits/
https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2021/narratives/police-academy/the-new-recruits/
St. Louis homicides fall to pre-pandemic levels, but murders up in St. Louis County
From the Post-Dispatch looking at homicide in St Louis City & County
Some interesting points in the article about homicides dropping in the city this year:
- "Homicides have returned to slightly lower than pre-pandemic levels, and are down about 30% in 2021 compared with 2020"
- interim Public Safety Director Dan Isom is crediting new officer deployment strategies and de-escalating conflicts
- police are also solving a much larger percentage of homicide case
- "The decrease this year sets St. Louis apart from other large U.S. cities where homicides are up nearly 15%" (it's nice to be on the good side of national crime trends for a change)
From the Post-Dispatch looking at homicide in St Louis City & County
Some interesting points in the article about homicides dropping in the city this year:
- "Homicides have returned to slightly lower than pre-pandemic levels, and are down about 30% in 2021 compared with 2020"
- interim Public Safety Director Dan Isom is crediting new officer deployment strategies and de-escalating conflicts
- police are also solving a much larger percentage of homicide case
- "The decrease this year sets St. Louis apart from other large U.S. cities where homicides are up nearly 15%" (it's nice to be on the good side of national crime trends for a change)
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Let's pray that continues. Getting some lasting crime (and I mean homicides) reduction would be such a big win for us.
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Great job Isom! Need more SLUH grads getting this city out of the muck it’s in….
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I shared this on Nextdoor since there are so many posts about how people think crime is always getting worse in STL based not on actual data, but on other Nextdoor posts._nomad_ wrote: ↑Aug 01, 2021St. Louis homicides fall to pre-pandemic levels, but murders up in St. Louis County
From the Post-Dispatch looking at homicide in St Louis City & County
Some interesting points in the article about homicides dropping in the city this year:
- "Homicides have returned to slightly lower than pre-pandemic levels, and are down about 30% in 2021 compared with 2020"
- interim Public Safety Director Dan Isom is crediting new officer deployment strategies and de-escalating conflicts
- police are also solving a much larger percentage of homicide case
- "The decrease this year sets St. Louis apart from other large U.S. cities where homicides are up nearly 15%" (it's nice to be on the good side of national crime trends for a change)
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Iirc, weren’t we on pace to exceed last year’s total through the first 2-3 months of 2021?
Yes, then homicides slowed down in recent months. Check out the chart in the PD article for monthly numbers.
Messenger: Crime is down in St. Louis, bucking a national trend in American cities
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/col ... op-story-1
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Still think the Isom hire was a slam dunk...so far.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/col ... op-story-1
It is, Rosenfeld told me last week, a “both-and” approach. Reforming police works hand in hand with shifting some police resources to social-service type agencies, while also concentrating a heavier police presence in some high-crime areas.
In early 2021, that has been the approach in St. Louis, and it may be working. Unlike most of the cities in Rosenfeld’s study, crime is down in St. Louis this year, particularly homicides. Let me repeat that, because if you pay attention to the constant social media activity of some of the state’s top Republicans, you might have missed this news: Crime is dropping in St. Louis.
...........
As reported by my colleague Erin Heffernan earlier this month, homicides are down in St. Louis 30% this year, dropping far below last year’s rate, which had been the highest in the city in 50 years. Public Safety Director Dan Isom, who was appointed by Mayor Tishaura O. Jones, believes that a change in policing strategy, might account for some of the drop in homicides. Isom used to be a colleague of Rosenfeld’s at UMSL, and has been focused, in part, on shifting resources to high-crime areas, particularly at night when most homicides in the city occur.
For Rosenfeld, this is potentially an early validation of the strategies he’s suggesting in his pandemic and crime reports. “The downturn in homicides in St. Louis is really quite striking,” he says. “We’re now back at a pre-pandemic homicide rate. It could very well be that the decline in police legitimacy may be subsiding a bit. People may be turning back to a situation where there is more cooperation with police.”
Still think the Isom hire was a slam dunk...so far.