urbanSTL

Gunshots just around the corner from us at 7am this morning in Tower Grove south. On Arsenal. It was light out. Kids wait for the bus right there typically. It was cold, but on a warmer day people would be out walking, including usually my wife and dog and/or kid. I'm not sure what happened, but there was a police presence and police tape as I left for work.

I know there are plenty of stories any city resident could share like this, but it's just getting demoralizing as it definitely seems to be getting worse not better. There is virtually no way I'm going to be able to convince my wife to stay in a neighborhood I love now. It's just sad.

Why are we going backwards?

robbie wrote: ↑

Jan 12, 2018

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... e-latest-1

Damn. That's not the incident I was talking about either. There was a call for shots fired into a dwelling at 4300 Arsenal this morning, and that was most likely what I heard. Haven't heard any details though.

jstriebel wrote: ↑

Jan 12, 2018

Gunshots just around the corner from us at 7am this morning in Tower Grove south. On Arsenal. It was light out. Kids wait for the bus right there typically. It was cold, but on a warmer day people would be out walking, including usually my wife and dog and/or kid. I'm not sure what happened, but there was a police presence and police tape as I left for work.

I know there are plenty of stories any city resident could share like this, but it's just getting demoralizing as it definitely seems to be getting worse not better. There is virtually no way I'm going to be able to convince my wife to stay in a neighborhood I love now. It's just sad.

Why are we going backwards?

I understand your frustration. There was an African-American gentleman on KMOX yesterday discussing the crime epidemic in STL. He largely places the blame on the A-A community for endorsing "thugocracy". Being a thug in some parts of the A-A community is endorsed and celebrated. Getting one's revenge through violence is glorified. His answer was more spirituality, says the devil has gained too much control over these young men.

jstriebel wrote: ↑

Jan 12, 2018

Why are we going backwards?

because we've allowed poverty to fester for decades, our mayor is useless, our police force is corrupt, and the rest of the state likes to watch us burn.

jstriebel wrote: ↑

Jan 12, 2018

I know there are plenty of stories any city resident could share like this, but it's just getting demoralizing as it definitely seems to be getting worse not better. There is virtually no way I'm going to be able to convince my wife to stay in a neighborhood I love now. It's just sad.

Why are we going backwards?

Exactly what I wrote a couple months ago - it's very demoralizing. And for an outsider who moved here recently, I am actually (very positively) surprised at the amount of civic pride and effort put on by the residents considering the third-world levels of crime. I'm a city person and really want to stay in the city, but there's no way I can convince my family to stay once we have children.

whitherSTL wrote: ↑

Jan 12, 2018

There was an African-American gentleman on KMOX yesterday discussing the crime epidemic in STL. He largely places the blame on the A-A community for endorsing "thugocracy". Being a thug in some parts of the A-A community is endorsed and celebrated.

Not sure how one black guy on the radio somehow speaks for the entire black community. Would you say that some white guy on the radio speaks for the entire white community? Being a thug is endorsed and celebrated by white people too. Look at who the white community elected for president.

In a decade the city will have ~225K residents, will file for BK, and everything will restart. For now, many parts are a #*hole and you have to move if you want your kids to have a wonderful childhood.

I'm not leaving the city, I'm just disappointed to realize I'm going to have to leave Tower Grove.

^^94+% of the homicides in the city last year were committed by firearm. 191 of 203 deaths.

Guns are the problem when it comes to homicide in America. There is a very simple solution to fix the VAST majority of criminal deaths in the country. It is ignored because it is a convenient rallying point to get Republicans elected. Anyone who disputes this is ignoring factual evidence in favor of opinion.

Will this solve violent crime? Nope. But it will absolutely solve 90% of homicides. This has been statistically proven beyond argument.


Sorry for potentially exploding this thread and MODs can feel free to delete to get back on topic.

whitherSTL wrote: ↑

Jan 12, 2018

http://www.slmpd.org/images/homicide_st ... ebsite.pdf

please explain in detail how the stats verify that the A-A community, as a whole, endorses "thugocracy". this should be entertaining...

It'd be interesting to see what would happen if we banned guns. Would there just be hundreds of stabbings, fist fights?

^^^

Yeah, probably.

whitherSTL wrote: ↑

Jan 12, 2018

It'd be interesting to see what would happen if we banned guns. Would there just be hundreds of stabbings, fist fights?

Definitely a distinct possibility. As I said getting rid of guns certainly will not end violent crime. It is magnitudes more difficult to kill someone via knife or punch, however. You also cannot drive by stab or punch someone. Nor can you stab or punch someone from the other end of the block. Etc etc etc etc etc.

whitherSTL wrote: ↑

Jan 12, 2018

It'd be interesting to see what would happen if we banned guns. Would there just be hundreds of stabbings, fist fights?

What makes you think that banning guns would make guns go away? Criminals are already banned from owning guns.

bprop wrote: ↑

Jan 12, 2018

whitherSTL wrote: ↑

Jan 12, 2018

It'd be interesting to see what would happen if we banned guns. Would there just be hundreds of stabbings, fist fights?

What makes you think that banning guns would make guns go away? Criminals are already banned from owning guns.

This is a false argument. It has literally been done in the real world already. Yes, in the short term they would have guns. Like literally anything else in the world it does not immediately solve the problem. It takes time and hard work and sustained proactive actions.

Just like everything else in life.

There were 214 knife murders in London during a recent 12-month period. Also 391 knife attempted murders. A six-year high. Migrant-related.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/r ... 62941.html

Surge in German knife crimes as well, mostly migrants.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06- ... ife-crimes

I think I'd rather get shot than stabbed to death. I mean, if I had to pick one.

^Interesting info.

It has zero relevancy to my post.

I agree 100% with the points about guns, and yet, I almost don't even want to go there in this thread. Not because it's wrong or even off-topic. Not even because it's unrealistic (though it kind of is for some reason). Really just because it doesn't address much that we can do at the local level.

Somehow the city of St. Louis has to figure out a way to solve this crime. And I don't know what to do.

I mean, in some ways we do. We know how we need to give people opportunities to build a life where they don't turn to crime. All true. But what do we do in the short-term.

I dunno. More questions than answers, I'm just growing beyond frustrated. Not only am I going to have to move neighborhoods, I'm afraid I'm going to have to do it sooner than I ever planned. And I hate it. I hate bailing on a place because that makes it worse. But it's not exactly my call anymore.

Sorry if I'm being dramatic about it. It's just a bit of a helpless feeling.

jstriebel wrote: I dunno. More questions than answers, I'm just growing beyond frustrated. Not only am I going to have to move neighborhoods, I'm afraid I'm going to have to do it sooner than I ever planned. And I hate it. I hate bailing on a place because that makes it worse. But it's not exactly my call anymore.

Sorry if I'm being dramatic about it. It's just a bit of a helpless feeling.

Forgive me, but why do you have to up and move just because of a few gunshots down the street? And what neighborhood in the city are you moving to where there won't be gunshots down the street?

newstl2020 wrote: ↑

Jan 12, 2018

This is a false argument. It has literally been done in the real world already. Yes, in the short term they would have guns. Like literally anything else in the world it does not immediately solve the problem. It takes time and hard work and sustained proactive actions.

Just like everything else in life.

Yea, but that's not what was implied by the question. The question was, effectively: "What happens if we ban guns? Will there be fistfights?" As though A->B.

The answer, ignoring the obvious impossibility of putting the horse back into the barn, is "not much."

If you would rather ask, "What happens if we ban guns, and over the next X decades, [again ignoring the impossibility of putting the horse back into the barn], enforce the ban, and put in a lot of hard work and proactive actions, will there eventually be fistfights instead?" .... then fine.

That’s fair.