Crime Thread

downtown2007 · PostJun 23, 2011#18262011-06-23T15:57+00:00

The thing is nobody knows what the true facts are because the Marines were either too drunk to know what happened or made a lot of it up.

It's harder to believe their wallet was stolen since their story changed multiple times. How do we know they didn't lose it at the bar? Why was only one Marines wallet stolen? How bad did the victims provoke them? Why ate the Marines automatically the good guys when they may have been in the wrong as much as the other 2.

Yes KSDK blew it. They opted to report the story even though they didn't have many facts. They just wanted to be the first to break the story.

leeharveyawesome · PostJun 23, 2011#18272011-06-23T17:02+00:00

Murder on the beautiful 1900 block of Sidney St. in beautiful Benton Park yesterday. Blunt force trauma to the dome. Sorry no link. It's on Stltoday. Can't wait to get the facts on this one.

soulardx · PostJun 23, 2011#18282011-06-23T17:19+00:00

Here's the story on the Benton Park murder.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 0f31a.html

Between the Dutchdown madness, STLPD Daryl Hall's shooting, the Marine mugging, Benton Park murder, etc, etc, etc, I don't think I've ever been so alarmed at this city's crime problem. It feels pretty hopeless right now unfortunately.

And, I don't care what Acting Commissioner Rawls' stats say, crime seems to be worsening.

the central scrutinizer · PostJun 23, 2011#18292011-06-23T17:29+00:00

downtown2007 wrote:The thing is nobody knows what the true facts are because the Marines were either too drunk to know what happened or made a lot of it up.

It's harder to believe their wallet was stolen since their story changed multiple times. How do we know they didn't lose it at the bar? Why was only one Marines wallet stolen? How bad did the victims provoke them? Why ate the Marines automatically the good guys when they may have been in the wrong as much as the other 2.

Yes KSDK blew it. They opted to report the story even though they didn't have many facts. They just wanted to be the first to break the story.

There's something that doesn't smell right about this story. I've wondered from the outset whether the 2 black guys even exist.

ttricamo · PostJun 23, 2011#18302011-06-23T17:38+00:00

This is a pretty typical response from St. Louis City. I understand the City's concern for their image and the need to conduct some "damage control". However, discounting what happened to the Marines is in poor taste. This goes back to a very fundamental issue: its easier for the City to create excuses and find "holes" in a story than it is for the City to admit to our crime problem. What is beginning to make the whole situation completely and utterly laughable is the fact that we constantly are having serious crimes committed in the city, every person in StL and most other places in the US know that we have a serious crime issue, yet there has never been some sort of acknowledgement of the problem on the part of our Leadership.

More excuses. More deflection. Less ownership of the actual problem. Where else in your day to day activities would you find this behavior acceptable? Most people hold young children to higher standards.

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 23, 2011#18312011-06-23T17:51+00:00

City leadership has very directly addressed city crime issues. I keep reading that they deny, deny, deny, but they often do the opposite. I don't think it's smart, but the city adamantly refused to do with Chicago does and avoid being put in the national (total crap) crime rankings. STL City has done about as much as possible to own their crime. That said, crime continues to go down and down while cries about lack of enforcement go up and up.

olvidarte · PostJun 23, 2011#18322011-06-23T18:03+00:00

While I don't disagree with the assessment on how city hall reacts in general, I still don't understand why the media isn't being held more accountable for their inaccurate reporting.

In this instance, the city acknowledges something happened, it just wasn't a stabbing, which is what was reported by KSDK yesterday morning. I think that's why they reacted the way they did. They're not saying a crime didn't occur, but they want to make it clear a Marine wasn't stabbed either.

Yes, city hall is bad, I get that, but what about the responsibility of the news media to report things accurately...which has now become a media-made frenzy?

If no one is held accountable, then we'll always have the crap that passes for news in this town.

I'm at the point where I don't know what to believe.

MattnSTL · PostJun 23, 2011#18332011-06-23T18:24+00:00

soulardx wrote:I don't think I've ever been so alarmed at this city's crime problem. It feels pretty hopeless right now unfortunately.

And, I don't care what Acting Commissioner Rawls' stats say, crime seems to be worsening.

You must not have been around these parts in the early 1990's...

soulardx · PostJun 23, 2011#18342011-06-23T18:39+00:00

Lived in Soulard since 1999. I don't remember reading/hearing about so many crimes in those 12 years. I realize the media environment is vastly changed, but I doubt it's as simple as more reporting of crime via 24-hr media outlets and online/social media.

In fact, has there ever been a murder on the same block as one of the city's best and most well-known restaraunts?

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 23, 2011#18352011-06-23T19:15+00:00

The story may be different for specific crimes, but it's true that child abduction cases have drastically dropped over the past decades, but reporting has increased exponentially.

bonwich · PostJun 23, 2011#18362011-06-23T19:20+00:00

During one of Channel 5's stories yesterday, they displayed the original police report. It said "stabbing." Our stories yesterday/today confirmed this. THERE WAS NO INACCURATE REPORTING.

Or, conversely, are you telling me that all news outlets should go around and fact-check police reports and/or interview victims about alleged crimes?

If there was a false report filed, I'll lay pretty strong odds that all local outlets will report that, too (much the same way the liar who said she was 'jacked by a couple of guys with "Police" on their shirts is all over the news today). And there should also be charges filed. Until that's proved, however, lashing out at alleged crime victims sends a really, really bad message.

soulardx · PostJun 23, 2011#18372011-06-23T19:27+00:00

Not to minimize the murder itself, but KSDK is reporting that this murder was in Soulard. Come on, KSDK....

Homicide investigation in Soulard

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/264286 ... n-Soulard-

lukethedrifter · PostJun 23, 2011#18382011-06-23T19:38+00:00

soulardx wrote:Not to minimize the murder itself, but KSDK is reporting that this murder was in Soulard. Come on, KSDK....

Homicide investigation in Soulard

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/264286 ... n-Soulard-

It's like a half a block from Soulard. C'mon Soulardx.

soulardx · PostJun 23, 2011#18392011-06-23T19:41+00:00

Admittedly, this is a huge pet peeve of mine, but why have neighborhoods at all if you're not going to use the boundaries correctly?

justme123 · PostJun 23, 2011#18402011-06-23T19:51+00:00

soulardx wrote:Admittedly, this is a huge pet peeve of mine, but why have neighborhoods at all if you're not going to use the boundaries correctly?

Agreed, but "Soulard" is better known to the masses, I guess.

Besides, there are those around here who refer to anything outside of 270 in WestCo as
"Chesterfield" and anything on the "other side of the river" as "St. Charles" so we're all inaccurate at times.

downtown2007 · PostJun 23, 2011#18412011-06-23T20:04+00:00

I don't think crime is worse I just think there are more high profile crimes which leads to an over indulgence in crime reporting to milk every last dime out of it.

Also these crimes are reported before all info is present and rarely followed up on. What was the motive behind the killing? Was it random or did he know the killer? We will never know.

southsidepride · PostJun 23, 2011#18422011-06-23T20:09+00:00

I live three blocks from the Benton Park incident and I'm not freaking out.

Sure it's disconcerting, but it doesn't sound like this was random. No mention of any kind of break in. Chances are this man knew his killer.

soulardx · PostJun 23, 2011#18432011-06-23T20:11+00:00

[/quote] Besides, there are those around here who refer to anything outside of 270 in WestCo as "Chesterfield" and anything on the "other side of the river" as "St. Charles" so we're all inaccurate at times.

[/quote]

damn, good point. guilty.

PostJun 23, 2011#18442011-06-23T20:15+00:00

KSDK amended their story. With some poor guy dead, feels like a terribly weak, shallow, meaningless victory.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/264286 ... enton-Park

ttricamo · PostJun 23, 2011#18452011-06-23T20:34+00:00

Alex Ihnen wrote:City leadership has very directly addressed city crime issues. I keep reading that they deny, deny, deny, but they often do the opposite. I don't think it's smart, but the city adamantly refused to do with Chicago does and avoid being put in the national (total crap) crime rankings. STL City has done about as much as possible to own their crime. That said, crime continues to go down and down while cries about lack of enforcement go up and up.

1 - Please provide any news snippet where St. Louis City leaders have admitted we have a serious crime issue and that they're working diligently to correct it. I'm really hoping you can provide this because it would restore at least a small amount of faith I have in our leadership.

2 - You always bring up the bogus statistics that label St. Louis as a dangerous city. You do realize that same logic applies to the statistics that you use to describe St. Louis crime as going "down and down", correct? I mean, St. Louis City did start counting crimes differently a couple two years ago.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 4ee6c.html

3 - At the end of the day, Perception is the real deal; its what people think about before they go to sleep or consider before they let their kids run around the neighborhood. Deny it. Deflect it. Find more statistics that point the other way. None of that matters when your stuff is stolen, your car windows are smashed, you're robbed, or your neighbor is shot or has his head bashed in.

Our crime problem has the same affect as using demoralization as a warfare tactic, albeit inadvertently.

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 23, 2011#18462011-06-23T20:40+00:00

soulardx wrote:KSDK amended their story. With some poor guy dead, feels like a terribly weak, shallow, meaningless victory.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/264286 ... enton-Park

KSDK amended the story in response to a nextSTL Tweet.

PostJun 23, 2011#18472011-06-23T20:50+00:00

"City leadership has very directly addressed city crime issues. I keep reading that they deny, deny, deny, but they often do the opposite. I don't think it's smart, but the city adamantly refused to do with Chicago does and avoid being put in the national (total crap) crime rankings. STL City has done about as much as possible to own their crime. That said, crime continues to go down and down while cries about lack of enforcement go up and up.

1 - Please provide any news snippet where St. Louis City leaders have admitted we have a serious crime issue and that they're working diligently to correct it. I'm really hoping you can provide this because it would restore at least a small amount of faith I have in our leadership.

I doubt that any response will satisfy your complaint here, but I'll humor you:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... d0c9a.html
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 326ab.html
http://mayorslay.com/news/pressrelease.php?prID=1340

2 - You always bring up the bogus statistics that label St. Louis as a dangerous city. You do realize that same logic applies to the statistics that you use to describe St. Louis crime as going "down and down", correct? I mean, St. Louis City did start counting crimes differently a couple two years ago.

So you have the stats to show that crime is up? Or are you saying that you can't know because counting has changed? Or are you saying that it doesn't matter anyway, because perception is the only thing that matters:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 4ee6c.html

3 - At the end of the day, Perception is the real deal; its what people think about before they go to sleep or consider before they let their kids run around the neighborhood. Deny it. Deflect it. Find more statistics that point the other way. None of that matters when your stuff is stolen, your car windows are smashed, you're robbed, or your neighbor is shot or has his head bashed in.

Our crime problem has the same affect as using demoralization as a warfare tactic, albeit inadvertently.

You're part of the negative perception. You simply state that things are awful, and getting worse and that the Mayor and police don't care. You're wrong and your attitude fuels the negative perception.

downtown2007 · PostJun 23, 2011#18482011-06-23T20:51+00:00

@ttricamo

I have heard Slay say in person "if we fix the schools and the crime it will resolve a lot of our problems". They are very concerned about it but get tired of tha vibrant attacks by media and othe outlets creating a false perception.

Story from KMOV last night...

http://kmov4.mlnwap.com/News/Local

the central scrutinizer · PostJun 24, 2011#18492011-06-24T03:06+00:00

soulardx wrote:Not to minimize the murder itself, but KSDK is reporting that this murder was in Soulard. Come on, KSDK....

Homicide investigation in Soulard

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/264286 ... n-Soulard-

Close enough.

newstl2020 · PostJun 24, 2011#18502011-06-24T03:35+00:00

^^^I am in agreement Alex.

Media is getting more and more sensationalized on a daily basis, especially since 2008 when revenues are way down and some (most) outlets are fighting to survive (wordplay!). Their perilous financial situation in combination with the fact that, in general, high unemployment (a country-wide problem) and summer creates a rise in crime (once again, across the ENTIRE COUNTRY) is likely creating an upswing in real crime, as well as sensationalized news reporting of crimes.

My point is, I don't think we are the only city in the country thinking this right now. Abhorent and awful, yes, but quite possibly something that is occuring everywhere and may just be almost impossible to avoid at this point in time.

(Also, a drunk person getting a black eye is hardly news, that happens all the time here in Minneapolis every weekend. Unless...OMG! Minneapolis must now be the most dangerous city in America! Eeeek!)

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