urbanSTL

arch_genesis wrote:If the NFL wanted a team in St. Louis, wouldn't we have one today?
Plans for the Rams to LA were set in motion in 2010. So why weren't plans for St. Louis made then as well?
Why didn't Kroenke look out for St. Louis on his way out the door, if he's going to look out for us down the line?
They've demonstrated they don't care about relocation guidelines, leases, or optics.
If the Jags were going to be steered to St. Louis why not do it while $477M, in part of a $1Billion stadium is on the table?
It would have only cost $100M to break the Jags lease. The NFL, conditionally, gave $100M each to the Raiders and Chargers.

I'm confident this league has no idea what it's doing.

It takes time to get a team back after losing one. When the Browns left Cleveland it took them three years to replace the same team. The Jaguars would need leverage to get a new stadium built here the NFL wants at least $750 Million for these new venues; if your paying attention to what's going on in Vegas.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... stination/

As one executive with a team other than the Jaguars told PFT on Wednesday morning, “People that I trust think there is a chance [Rams owner] Stan Kroenke moves the Rams to L.A. and [Shahid] Khan moves to St. Louis.” November 30, 2011

Jim Woodcock is the Jaguars Head of PR . He was also the PR for the Riverfront Stadium. He is now the Head PR guy for MLS2STL.............

https://twitter.com/WoodySTL?ref_src=tw ... r%5Eauthor

WendellOPruitt wrote:

arch_genesis wrote:If the NFL wanted a team in St. Louis, wouldn't we have one today?
Plans for the Rams to LA were set in motion in 2010. So why weren't plans for St. Louis made then as well?
Why didn't Kroenke look out for St. Louis on his way out the door, if he's going to look out for us down the line?
They've demonstrated they don't care about relocation guidelines, leases, or optics.
If the Jags were going to be steered to St. Louis why not do it while $477M, in part of a $1Billion stadium is on the table?
It would have only cost $100M to break the Jags lease. The NFL, conditionally, gave $100M each to the Raiders and Chargers.

I'm confident this league has no idea what it's doing.

It takes time to get a team back after losing one. When the Browns left Cleveland it took them three years to replace the same team. The Jaguars would need leverage to get a new stadium built here the NFL wants at least $750 Million for these new venues; if your paying attention to what's going on in Vegas.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... stination/

As one executive with a team other than the Jaguars told PFT on Wednesday morning, “People that I trust think there is a chance [Rams owner] Stan Kroenke moves the Rams to L.A. and [Shahid] Khan moves to St. Louis.” November 30, 2011

Jim Woodcock is the Jaguars Head of PR . He was also the PR for the Riverfront Stadium. He is now the Head PR guy for MLS2STL.............

https://twitter.com/WoodySTL?ref_src=tw ... r%5Eauthor

It took 3 years to build the stadium, yeah, but Cleveland knew by February 1996 they'd be back in 1999. 2 months after the move to Baltimore was first announced. Either an expansion team by 1999 or an existing team would relocate.

Cleveland NFL Football LLC (Cleveland Browns Trust) was formed by the NFL. The president of the trust was Bill Futterer, and NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue was the trustee. The trust represented the NFL in the stadium design and construction, managed the sale of suites and club seats, and sold permanent seat licenses and season tickets. Additionally, the trust reorganized the Browns Backers fan clubs across the United States, resumed coaches' shows on television and radio throughout the state of Ohio, and conducted a dramatic one-year countdown celebration that incorporated the first live Internet broadcast in NFL history. The trust operated its campaign under a "Countdown to '99" theme, using Hall of Famers such as Lou Groza and Jim Brown extensively, and sold nearly 53,000 season tickets—a team record in 1998. It remains the only time in professional American football history that a league operated a team in absentia to preserve the history of the franchise and to build value in that franchise for the future owner. The NFL sold the Browns as an expansion team in 1998 to former Browns minority owner Al Lerner. The purchase price was a then- North American record $530 million, more than double any previous selling price for a professional sports team.[121] Commissioner Tagliabue announced that the Browns would be an expansion team, rather than a relocated team, at the owners' meeting in March 1998

^Nothing like this is happening in St. Louis. If they wanted $750M they could have said so and that would have been the end of it. They weren't going to get $750M for the Rams but they expect to get it for the Jaguars? I don't even know if St. Louis ponies up that kind of money for an expansion team with its own identity.

The NFL trashed the market, the riverfront stadium and the fans. If the NFL is planning to take care of St. Louis they have a funny way of showing it.

The Jim Woodcock thread is interesting but Fleishman-Hillard does PR work for a number of teams across all leagues, it's just a job.

I love it:

"Punt, punt, punt, interception, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, interception, punt, turnover on downs, end of game".

Problem solved guys!

Howard Balzer @HBalzer721 wrote:Efforts are underway to have Arena Football team in STL. League wants it. Not NFL replacement, but fun sport.

-RBB

rbb wrote:Problem solved guys!

Howard Balzer @HBalzer721 wrote:Efforts are underway to have Arena Football team in STL. League wants it. Not NFL replacement, but fun sport.

-RBB

But Scottrade/Chaifetz/Family Arena won't work for them, so they'll need to build a new 14,000 seat arena in Maryland Heights.

It’s Getting Harder and Harder to Deny That Football Is Doomed
https://theringer.com/nfl-concussions-c ... .x0bqz2kd1

^And yet team values rose an average of 19% over last year.

http://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/#tab:overall

Maybe that what's S'tan Kroenke wanted to move so badly: nows a great time to sell, but he sees the writing on the wall?

^Man, he'd make a killing if he sold right now. The value of the Rams doubled after the move to LA.

I doubt he wants to sell, though; he collects sports teams the way some guys collect old cars.

framer wrote:^Man, he'd make a killing if he sold right now. The value of the Rams doubled after the move to LA.

I doubt he wants to sell, though; he collects sports teams the way some guys collect old cars.

Almost any team that would have moved to LA, as the sole NFL team for 12 million people, would have doubled in value or more except maybe Dallas or New England. But all other owners decided they were making enough money and valued the loyalty of their fan base over pure cash, apparently. Not Kroenke. And Kroenke's own actions and Rams record and performance with the draft and free agency in St. Louse severely slowed the growth in fanchise value. Imagine if the Rams owner and organization had the record of Green Bay, New England, or even Indianapolis over the last 10 years instead of setting NFL records for losing seasons.

The Rams were valued at $200 million when they moved to St. Louis in 1995. Kroenke then paid $80 million for a 40% share. By 2004, the value of the Rams in St. Louis was estimated at $757 million, nearly 4 times higher in 9 years. In 2009, when Kroenke bought the rest of the Rams, they were valued at $929 million, and rose to $1.45 billion in 2015. So the Rams value went up by factor of 7.25 in the time they were in St. Louis. That is what Kroenke referred to as financial ruin. (It will be interesting to see if they go up at the same rate in LA to reach $21.75 billion in 20 years.) So Kroenke could have made a killing selling the team at any time in the past while in St. Louis if he wanted to. In 2009, just selling his 40% to Khan would have giving him about $400 million pure cash.

The value of the team went up in LA of course, but against that value he still has to pay a relocation fee ($500 million?) and build a $2B stadium with his own money since LA refuses to provide a dime of public money. And who out there is slobbering over themselves to put out $3B for THIS Rams organization?

^Well said Gary Kreie.

arch_genesis wrote:

WendellOPruitt wrote:

arch_genesis wrote:If the NFL wanted a team in St. Louis, wouldn't we have one today?
Plans for the Rams to LA were set in motion in 2010. So why weren't plans for St. Louis made then as well?
Why didn't Kroenke look out for St. Louis on his way out the door, if he's going to look out for us down the line?
They've demonstrated they don't care about relocation guidelines, leases, or optics.
If the Jags were going to be steered to St. Louis why not do it while $477M, in part of a $1Billion stadium is on the table?
It would have only cost $100M to break the Jags lease. The NFL, conditionally, gave $100M each to the Raiders and Chargers.

I'm confident this league has no idea what it's doing.

It takes time to get a team back after losing one. When the Browns left Cleveland it took them three years to replace the same team. The Jaguars would need leverage to get a new stadium built here the NFL wants at least $750 Million for these new venues; if your paying attention to what's going on in Vegas.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... stination/

As one executive with a team other than the Jaguars told PFT on Wednesday morning, “People that I trust think there is a chance [Rams owner] Stan Kroenke moves the Rams to L.A. and [Shahid] Khan moves to St. Louis.” November 30, 2011

Jim Woodcock is the Jaguars Head of PR . He was also the PR for the Riverfront Stadium. He is now the Head PR guy for MLS2STL.............

https://twitter.com/WoodySTL?ref_src=tw ... r%5Eauthor

It took 3 years to build the stadium, yeah, but Cleveland knew by February 1996 they'd be back in 1999. 2 months after the move to Baltimore was first announced. Either an expansion team by 1999 or an existing team would relocate.

Cleveland NFL Football LLC (Cleveland Browns Trust) was formed by the NFL. The president of the trust was Bill Futterer, and NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue was the trustee. The trust represented the NFL in the stadium design and construction, managed the sale of suites and club seats, and sold permanent seat licenses and season tickets. Additionally, the trust reorganized the Browns Backers fan clubs across the United States, resumed coaches' shows on television and radio throughout the state of Ohio, and conducted a dramatic one-year countdown celebration that incorporated the first live Internet broadcast in NFL history. The trust operated its campaign under a "Countdown to '99" theme, using Hall of Famers such as Lou Groza and Jim Brown extensively, and sold nearly 53,000 season tickets—a team record in 1998. It remains the only time in professional American football history that a league operated a team in absentia to preserve the history of the franchise and to build value in that franchise for the future owner. The NFL sold the Browns as an expansion team in 1998 to former Browns minority owner Al Lerner. The purchase price was a then- North American record $530 million, more than double any previous selling price for a professional sports team.[121] Commissioner Tagliabue announced that the Browns would be an expansion team, rather than a relocated team, at the owners' meeting in March 1998

^Nothing like this is happening in St. Louis. If they wanted $750M they could have said so and that would have been the end of it. They weren't going to get $750M for the Rams but they expect to get it for the Jaguars? I don't even know if St. Louis ponies up that kind of money for an expansion team with its own identity.

The NFL trashed the market, the riverfront stadium and the fans. If the NFL is planning to take care of St. Louis they have a funny way of showing it.

The Jim Woodcock thread is interesting but Fleishman-Hillard does PR work for a number of teams across all leagues, it's just a job.

Its all a process.............it takes time for expansion and relocation.

WendellOPruitt wrote:

arch_genesis wrote:

WendellOPruitt wrote:
It takes time to get a team back after losing one. When the Browns left Cleveland it took them three years to replace the same team. The Jaguars would need leverage to get a new stadium built here the NFL wants at least $750 Million for these new venues; if your paying attention to what's going on in Vegas.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... stination/

As one executive with a team other than the Jaguars told PFT on Wednesday morning, “People that I trust think there is a chance [Rams owner] Stan Kroenke moves the Rams to L.A. and [Shahid] Khan moves to St. Louis.” November 30, 2011

Jim Woodcock is the Jaguars Head of PR . He was also the PR for the Riverfront Stadium. He is now the Head PR guy for MLS2STL.............

https://twitter.com/WoodySTL?ref_src=tw ... r%5Eauthor

It took 3 years to build the stadium, yeah, but Cleveland knew by February 1996 they'd be back in 1999. 2 months after the move to Baltimore was first announced. Either an expansion team by 1999 or an existing team would relocate.

Cleveland NFL Football LLC (Cleveland Browns Trust) was formed by the NFL. The president of the trust was Bill Futterer, and NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue was the trustee. The trust represented the NFL in the stadium design and construction, managed the sale of suites and club seats, and sold permanent seat licenses and season tickets. Additionally, the trust reorganized the Browns Backers fan clubs across the United States, resumed coaches' shows on television and radio throughout the state of Ohio, and conducted a dramatic one-year countdown celebration that incorporated the first live Internet broadcast in NFL history. The trust operated its campaign under a "Countdown to '99" theme, using Hall of Famers such as Lou Groza and Jim Brown extensively, and sold nearly 53,000 season tickets—a team record in 1998. It remains the only time in professional American football history that a league operated a team in absentia to preserve the history of the franchise and to build value in that franchise for the future owner. The NFL sold the Browns as an expansion team in 1998 to former Browns minority owner Al Lerner. The purchase price was a then- North American record $530 million, more than double any previous selling price for a professional sports team.[121] Commissioner Tagliabue announced that the Browns would be an expansion team, rather than a relocated team, at the owners' meeting in March 1998

^Nothing like this is happening in St. Louis. If they wanted $750M they could have said so and that would have been the end of it. They weren't going to get $750M for the Rams but they expect to get it for the Jaguars? I don't even know if St. Louis ponies up that kind of money for an expansion team with its own identity.

The NFL trashed the market, the riverfront stadium and the fans. If the NFL is planning to take care of St. Louis they have a funny way of showing it.

The Jim Woodcock thread is interesting but Fleishman-Hillard does PR work for a number of teams across all leagues, it's just a job.

Its all a process.............it takes time for expansion and relocation.

Except that he just showed you how it really doesn't take any time at all. In Cleveland, it was decided just months after the Browns relocated to Baltimore that they would be getting an expansion franchise. That is not happening for St. Louis, and without a shred of credible evidence that anything is in the works, it is highly delusional to expect otherwise.

Except that he just showed you how it really doesn't take any time at all. In Cleveland, it was decided just months after the Browns relocated to Baltimore that they would be getting an expansion franchise. That is not happening for St. Louis, and without a shred of credible evidence that anything is in the works, it is highly delusional to expect otherwise.

You are confused about the conversation. I never said the NFL would gift STL a team like Cleveland. I used Cleveland as an example that to even replace a team it took a 3 year process; in which Cleveland was without a team.

Process:
New Owner
New Front Office
Expansion Draft
Stadium being built


I used that example to explain that St. Louis could have a another team probably the Jaguars, but it will take long process to relocate. It took the Rams 5 years to get out of STL.

Main Point: You don't just have another team after one relocates.

^ While I agree that the Jags are not likely coming here, the stadium and practice facility improvements might be a necessity just to get them to the end of their lease in 2029. As we know, the lifespan of stadiums is not what it used to be, unless your building a brand new mega-stadium like StanK, Jerry, Vikes or Falcons. Also, even StanK invested in local developments through THF. So, I wouldn't read into Shad's investments meaning he is tied to JAX forever. I think long term, JAX will likely be looking for a new stadium or massive renovation. Everbank is a dump. If I recall correctly, back when the Rams were playing nice with the CVC, they helped funds some Dome improvements (I believe) and even ignored the 'top tier' clause a few times. Shad says all of the right things now, but he could become disgruntled if they cannot offer some significant public money to get that stadium renovated. Not to mention, JAX being a small market makes the relocation risk a reality. If they have some losing seasons, fan support dwindles, the situation could change in JAX. NFL owners print money, so dropping some money today, does not necessary mean they are tied to a market. Again, not saying that the Jags are moving, but JAX is going to have some issues unless they plan on bucking up to address the stadium issues there. I am in no way saying I believe the Jags would come here. I hope they do, but I doubt it. STL's best hope is is expansion, WAY down the road. For that to happen, Goodell needs to be long gone, some of the greedy geezers (StanK, Jerry, etc) to be on their deathbed and our economy and population needs to be on the rise. Right now, we'd be competing with Vegas, San Antonio, Toronto and London, all growing cities. That is some tough competition. Even if you replace Vegas on that list with Oakland, assuming they move there, a 2nd team in the Bay area seems more likely than STL today in 2016. Time will tell, but as we know, our focus should be MLS and maybe the NBA. I prefer MLS and the NFL because I do not want direct competition for the Blues, but that is just me.

^ While I agree completely, I do not believe the Edward Jones Dome cannot be renovated into a middle-tier NFL venue. I think the STL market is attractive to either expansion or a team like the Jags, in a small market with an aging stadium. That would all be assuming, we'd be willing to make big renovations to the Dome. I know that would take a sales job to the public, but the venue is already there, why not fix it up. I refuse to believe that stadium is as terrible as it seemed. I say that to myself every time I'm there. Many of these new venues have a roof. If only the Dome had a transparent roof and a team worth a sh-t, I see no reason STL couldn't be a very successful NFL market. While I agree, the market is poisoned, less than a year removed from the debacle that was the relocation of the Rams, but time heals. I am not saying it will ever happen, but if the opportunity presented itself, way down the road, I find it hard to fathom, STL would not jump at the chance, especially if an owner was local, committed to the market and throwing private cash at the project. I understand, that is very unlikely, but none of us have a crystal ball. By the way, I'm talking 10 yrs. plus down the road. If I had to bet though, I would put my money on STL never having NFL football again.

chaifetz10 wrote:I still don't get your connection to the Jaguars. As I mentioned before, Kahn has opened up his own checkbook ($75 million) to help pay for upgrades to EverBank Field and is building the Shipyards Project. He also put in $45 million on their practice facility and entertainment district. The facts are showing that the Jaguars are not moving.

Disclaimer: I am not rooting for the Jaguars to come here. I am reading the rumors from NFL insiders.

Jasone La Canforna
Does St. Louis ever get a football team again?
It wouldn't shock me, if the city can maintain momentum and funding options for the riverfront stadium project. A lot of smart people are involved in that process. Keeping the ball rolling might be tough for a while with the Rams move stinging, but this was always being built for the city and not for Kroenke, and St. Louis is now in the pole position for any franchise move down the line (there won't be expansion; there are 32 pieces in this pie and that's all the owners want cut).

The Jaguars are always the first team mentioned by other owners and execs in terms of the league's fixation with London, and that situation will come to a head around 2020, when TV contracts are up and after the league will have time to keep ramping up how many games it plays over there. Jags owner Shad Khan has deep ties to Missouri and was about to buy the Rams -- and likely keep them in St. Louis -- before Kroenke got around to executing his right to do so.
Cue the part where Jaguars fans go bonkers at me on Twitter and show me all the pretty pictures of the drawings of a practice facility that doesn't exist and show me that pretty scoreboard and swimming pool in the outdated stadium there. Save it. I'm not the guy you have to worry about. This is big, big business. Money talks, market-size matters and revenue is king. If you haven't been paying attention to this process with L.A. and how things work in the NFL, just ask some people in Baltimore or Cleveland or St. Louis. I'm not your problem. The economics of the NFL is.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/a-pri ... s-angeles/

Jason Cole
Verified account
‏@JasonColeBR
And, finally, the idea of #Jaguars going to StL is again being bandied about #NFL owners and executives. That's top StL solution, for now

twitter.com/jasoncolebr/status/639060365456900096

Mike Florio
As one executive with a team other than the Jaguars told PFT on Wednesday morning “People that I trust think there is a chance [Rams owner] Stan Kroenke moves the Rams to L.A. and [Shahid] Khan moves to St. Louis.

And on the Shipyards........
Does mayor's budget end Shipyards development?
http://www.news4jax.com/news/local/jack ... evelopment

WendellOPruitt wrote:

chaifetz10 wrote:I still don't get your connection to the Jaguars. As I mentioned before, Kahn has opened up his own checkbook ($75 million) to help pay for upgrades to EverBank Field and is building the Shipyards Project. He also put in $45 million on their practice facility and entertainment district. The facts are showing that the Jaguars are not moving.

Disclaimer: I am not rooting for the Jaguars to come here. I am reading the rumors from NFL insiders.

Jasone La Canforna
Does St. Louis ever get a football team again?
It wouldn't shock me, if the city can maintain momentum and funding options for the riverfront stadium project. A lot of smart people are involved in that process. Keeping the ball rolling might be tough for a while with the Rams move stinging, but this was always being built for the city and not for Kroenke, and St. Louis is now in the pole position for any franchise move down the line (there won't be expansion; there are 32 pieces in this pie and that's all the owners want cut).

The Jaguars are always the first team mentioned by other owners and execs in terms of the league's fixation with London, and that situation will come to a head around 2020, when TV contracts are up and after the league will have time to keep ramping up how many games it plays over there. Jags owner Shad Khan has deep ties to Missouri and was about to buy the Rams -- and likely keep them in St. Louis -- before Kroenke got around to executing his right to do so.
Cue the part where Jaguars fans go bonkers at me on Twitter and show me all the pretty pictures of the drawings of a practice facility that doesn't exist and show me that pretty scoreboard and swimming pool in the outdated stadium there. Save it. I'm not the guy you have to worry about. This is big, big business. Money talks, market-size matters and revenue is king. If you haven't been paying attention to this process with L.A. and how things work in the NFL, just ask some people in Baltimore or Cleveland or St. Louis. I'm not your problem. The economics of the NFL is.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/a-pri ... s-angeles/

Jason Cole
Verified account
‏@JasonColeBR
And, finally, the idea of #Jaguars going to StL is again being bandied about #NFL owners and executives. That's top StL solution, for now

twitter.com/jasoncolebr/status/639060365456900096

Mike Florio
As one executive with a team other than the Jaguars told PFT on Wednesday morning “People that I trust think there is a chance [Rams owner] Stan Kroenke moves the Rams to L.A. and [Shahid] Khan moves to St. Louis.

And on the Shipyards........
Does mayor's budget end Shipyards development?
http://www.news4jax.com/news/local/jack ... evelopment

I think the confusion we have here is that your original post seems to allude to a process (to move to the Jaguars to St. Louis) already being underway. That someone is working on moving the Jaguars to St. Louis.

In the light everything that happened in ripping the Rams away from St. Louis, how could anyone believe that?.

Could the Jaguars end up in St. Louis? Maybe, but I don't think anyone's at work right now to make that happen. Other than the usual clickbait rumor mills. Jason Cole had an article and "source" for every scenario last year, it's what he does.

Interesting article on Shad Kahn's visit to London. While nothing to freak out about (from a JAX perspective), we all know how much the NFL cartel can be trusted. After all, it is all about that goal of $25 billion in revenue, not loyalty to the fans. If I were in JAX, I would always be weary of the NFL and it's motives, as we found out.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2016 ... and-soccer

Not a bad little article. I could stand to see a matchup against the Mets. That's a trip down memory lane right there.

This was discussed a lot on here and it's good to see it playing out in favor of the CVC and the Dome.