urbanSTL

It certainly seems like we would have ground for a lawsuit if some how Stan is allowed to move the Rams.
If this is a fixed result, and the league led us on, then we should be reimbursed for all the taxpayer money the RSC, Task Force, and state provided.

Not to mention PSL holders who made the calculated assumption that the NFL would follow its own Relocation Policy and Procedures before investing money in this team.

you know what, i havent wondered this until now but does anyone know if the plans for the new stadium include the possibility of expansion of seats? 67,000 people soundsall well and good now, seeing as our attendance isnt top notch, but what if the team turns around? blues and cards nearly sell out all home games. what if the rams start playing like a playoff team again?

^ I have heard that the city wants a northern spur of Metrolink to connect the stadium and NGA, but I think that double track is just the rail road that goes through the area. Although it would be cool if that was a Metrolink ROW going to the North Broadway Warehouse district and connected downtown via subway transfer at 8th and pine.

That would be interesting if they used that ROW, I would just wonder how it would integrate into the current system. At lacledes landing? I know that there are talks of a Metrolink spur to connect the stadium and NGA, but I always assumed that meant they would take it up North Broadway instead of 14th street. My guess is that its just a bogus rendering. Whats the point if having it elevated? I hope I'm wrong though.
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*Then again, if they have plans of turning the north riverfront into Cortex 2.0 w/ or w/o the stadium. It would need to have direct Metrolink access, but again where would the lines meet up? Would it tunnel underground at lacledes landing and follow along to the convention center stop? Would a piece of Eads bridge have to be removed? It would get interesting. I really think North Broadway is where they are going though.

Since they are tearing up the Arch grounds now, it might have been nice to rebuild the train tunnel with two tracks. One for metrolink.

As I've posted on twitter friday...after some very basic and brief math in an excel sheet- the city would lose between $80m and $140M over the 35 years years of this deal.....this doesnt include revenue from MLS taxes but at this point really cant count those....it also doesnt include indirect spending like people from the county stopping by a restaurant and bar after or before games ect.

so knowing all of that, the question is....if NFL football important enough to spend $2.28million to $4M a year from the city's $1billion budget (that will be 1.5-1.6 by 2051)

and as a FYI...the city would have started turning a profit in year 2-3 if the county pitched in $6M a year

also if taxable revenue grows by 8% a year, City will make $48M over the 35 years and break even in year 2030...but 8% is very rosy...best of best cases is maybe 5%...at 5, this is a net 0 for the city over 35 years.

dbInSouthCity,

You should share that spreadsheet with NextSTL - would love to see it.

I agree. I'd like to see your spreadsheet too. What were your assumptions about inflation, interest rate? Did you look at sales tax $$s that the school district or GRG gets from football related sales taxes? Where did you put the County and State windfalls from the Rams -- do they keep all or does the City negotiate to offset any loss against their gain, such as getting the County to subsidize more of the airport? Also, if the Rams leave, the city will still be on the hook for $6M * 6 years on the dome payments without Rams revenue to offset any of that. That would be a loss of $25M unless added conveniotns could start immediately to fill that hole. Just asking. I have more, but I'll wait to see the spreadsheet.

Dayum! _Right_ when the Rams start getting good again, they're settin' to pack up and leave! Ooooh. That's gonna hurt!!

Here is some basic #'s with 2.5% growth yearly in tax revenue all the way up to 5% and everything in between
I didn't consider anything secondary like people eating at restaurant etc..its very hard to do and really a moot point. probably a wash when you consider current property taxes generated at the site vs no taxes with the stadium.


Top # is the net lose to the city...middle is if county put in $6M a year or county with $3.9M a year than what the net would be to the city

dbInSouthCity wrote:Here is some basic #'s with 2.5% growth yearly in tax revenue all the way up to 5% and everything in between
I didn't consider anything secondary like people eating at restaurant etc..its very hard to do and really a moot point. probably a wash when you consider current property taxes generated at the site vs no taxes with the stadium.


Top # is the net lose to the city...middle is if county put in $6M a year or county with $3.9M a year than what the net would be to the city

Thanks for putting this together. So, if I read this correctly, the delta deficit for the city starts out at $3 million per year and goes up to $5.4 million after 35 years, which is about 1.68% growth, which probably matches the expected growth of the City budget, so it should stay about the same % of the city budget over that time. $3 million / $1 billion yearly City budget = 3/10 of 1% of the budget. When you add up all the costs, the grand total $134M looks like a lot, but $134M in 2051 is the same as $56M in today's dollars for the whole thing, assuming 2.5% inflation.

It would be great if the County would contribute what you propose. If the State would just rebate some of their windfall for keeping the Rams, the City would break even. I think the City should take a shot at computing how much the County and St. Charles will benefit from keeping the Rams, and consider subtracting that amount from regional projects funded by the City. Or better yet, set up regional programs with the County in law enforcement, regional promotion, schools etc. and make it clear that the City expects the County to shoulder more of the cost, due to the free money they make because the City funded the tasks required to keep the Rams which benefits the County financially.

I do believe there are benefits to the City & region that are harder to quantify. Here are a few:
1) Sales tax $$s go to the City school district and GRG also from football related sales.
2) City will need to pay $6m/yr on dome for 6 more years with no Rams revenue if the Rams leave this winter.
3) Mayor computes construction will produce $13M per year in new City revenue for 3 years during construction.
4) Additional revenue from an MLS team is likely after stadium is built. Probably by 2025.
5) Studies show property values are somewhat higher in NFL cities as a result of having a team. How do those higher property values translate into tax dollars for our schools throughout the region?
6) Value of national exposure for St. Louis region every week on TV in the fall. What would that cost to replace?
7) Charitable giving by the Rams management and players. And extra charitable giving from donors spurred by the Rams. What would it cost the City to pay for those services?
8 ) How do you value a one-time opportunity where the NFL will provide $450 million from outside the region? This offer is only on the table if we are an NFL city.
9) Players spend much of their high slarary money back in the region. And later move here. Did you see the home Molina is selling for $2.2 million. I assume he is buying an even bigger one. Players won't live or move back here after playing if they've never played here.
10) Businesses and universities tout the NFL presences as a St. Louis advantage to attract recruits. It says St. Louis is a big city. What value should one place on that? It is not zero.

This could really not be that bad of a deal for the city if the Rams moved their offices and practice site from Earth City.

Task Force to present 11/11/15. This meeting will likely decide the fate of the NFL in STL. I wouldn't think the BOA will have come to a decision by then. I wonder how this affects the NFL's overall perception of the STL plan.

This presentation could involve as many as 17 league owners over the three committees, assuming all 17 are able to attend.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football ... 24e55.html