Thanks for the clarification.dbInSouthCity wrote:^ Thats not the Chargers video...thats the City of San Diego video for a stadium at a location the Charges do not want and a location that requires a June 2016 vote...the location chargers want is downtown but hotel owners do not want the stadium there they want a new convention center.
I still find it funny that some people act like St. Louis is the worst city ever, when the Twin Cities/Minnesota have done the following in recent historyroger wyoming II wrote:Here's more on the Vikings deal and the owner, the wonderfully-named villain Zygi Wilf, getting to credit PSL's to his side of the private-public split.
http://www.startribune.com/seat-license ... 244270481/
The personal seat licenses in the so-called stadium-builder license program are expected to net $100 million. That revenue will count as part of owner Zygi Wilf’s contribution to the construction....
Kelm-Helgen pointed out that the team is responsible for the license program. If sales fail to produce the necessary $100 million, she said, the state has “ironclad agreements” that require the Vikings to make up the difference.
(I think it turned out they raised more than that.) So again, here we're trying to count the projected $160M in seat licenses to the public side of the ledger. I don't know if Grubman has specifically commented on that issue like he did on the gameday taxes. but I can easily see the owners nodding in agreement when he argues Saint Louis isn't coming up with enough ransom.
-used $70 million in public money for the Wild's hockey arena
-spent $100 million to buy the Target center plus another $75 million earlier this year for renovations
-covered 40% of the University of Minnesota's football stadium costs
-gave $300 million to built the Twins' baseball stadium
-contributed $500 million for the Vikings' new stadium
Back of envelope math, that's $1.2 billion in public money in the last dozen or so years.
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State of MO $250M
- $150 in bonds
- $100 in tax credits
City of St.Louis $150M
$70M in bonds from City
$80m in Bonds from RSA paid by naming rights $5.5M a year...Stan gets the other $2.4M from naming rights + $5.5 in tax rebates to make up the full $7.9 Naming rights.. + Overruns (which is really where the state+county will come in the mix for additional $)
NFL
$200M from G4 loan- Paid back from a pool of 32 owners
Stan
$250M upfront
$150m PSL
Minnesota was $551 Owner, $380 State, 150M City + owner covers overruns
Atlanta $1.4 billion total, owner $800m, Public $600M + owner covers overruns
- $150 in bonds
- $100 in tax credits
City of St.Louis $150M
$70M in bonds from City
$80m in Bonds from RSA paid by naming rights $5.5M a year...Stan gets the other $2.4M from naming rights + $5.5 in tax rebates to make up the full $7.9 Naming rights.. + Overruns (which is really where the state+county will come in the mix for additional $)
NFL
$200M from G4 loan- Paid back from a pool of 32 owners
Stan
$250M upfront
$150m PSL
Minnesota was $551 Owner, $380 State, 150M City + owner covers overruns
Atlanta $1.4 billion total, owner $800m, Public $600M + owner covers overruns
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Minneapolis (and Atlanta even more-so) is also growing at a much faster clip than St. Louis, and I would imagine that they are comparatively awash in resources. But apart from that, other cities spending tons of public money on facilities for privately-owned sports franchises doesn't justify St. Louis doing so.dweebe wrote:I still find it funny that some people act like St. Louis is the worst city ever, when the Twin Cities/Minnesota have done the following in recent history
-used $70 million in public money for the Wild's hockey arena
-spent $100 million to buy the Target center plus another $75 million earlier this year for renovations
-covered 40% of the University of Minnesota's football stadium costs
-gave $300 million to built the Twins' baseball stadium
-contributed $500 million for the Vikings' new stadium
Back of envelope math, that's $1.2 billion in public money in the last dozen or so years.
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Sure it does...They've proven it's PART of a winning formula....
The issue isn't really who own's the naming rights money. Everyone seems in agreement that that is the team/league. That's why part of Peacock's proposal is to pay back the team/league with the tax rebates.
The hang up is going to be those tax rebates. The NFL has now publicly expressed that it believes it is entitled to ALL gameday taxes generated.
So in their mind, we're not actually paying them back because the tax money we're giving to them should be theirs in the first place. And in fact, we're still trying to steal 50% of it from them.
The hang up is going to be those tax rebates. The NFL has now publicly expressed that it believes it is entitled to ALL gameday taxes generated.
So in their mind, we're not actually paying them back because the tax money we're giving to them should be theirs in the first place. And in fact, we're still trying to steal 50% of it from them.
And in St. Louis it's a proven part of a losing formula.sirshankalot wrote:Sure it does...They've proven it's PART of a winning formula....
It's not like this is our first go around at stadium building.
(With that said, I don't think it's a part of either formula. You can build stadiums because you want them, and doing so will cause a natural impact on other things. But whether you win or lose is based on so many more things. Things we suck at doing because we have terrible priorities.)
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Looking at Minneapolis, owner Zigy Wilf got a huge deal -- basically a free stadium. Of his original $500M commitment, it looks like it basically breaks down as:
PSLs: 100M+
Naming Rights: 220M
NFL G4 program: $150M
That's $470M with just a bit having to be paid back to NFL so maybe $30M out-of-pocket. He chose to include a few stadium upgrades so he's now responsible for $72M more but that's a nice gig!
PSLs: 100M+
Naming Rights: 220M
NFL G4 program: $150M
That's $470M with just a bit having to be paid back to NFL so maybe $30M out-of-pocket. He chose to include a few stadium upgrades so he's now responsible for $72M more but that's a nice gig!
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Stan is getting pretty much the same thing
$150M PSL
$158M Naming Rights (via the tax rebates)
$200M NFL G4
$92M out of pocket
+ $400 M ($250m State + $150M City)
$150M PSL
$158M Naming Rights (via the tax rebates)
$200M NFL G4
$92M out of pocket
+ $400 M ($250m State + $150M City)
dweebe wrote:The Chargers have a new video of their stadium design.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/_OSC-rXed-I
I honestly like it more than what will never get built on the North Riverfront.
Chargers response to the video....
Say what you will about Stan about not talking...based on the talking that the Chargers and Raiders are doing and what they are saying...ill take Stan's silence any day.
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^ he's going to build a stadium in Howard Bend!
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Wouldn't that be ironic.... The Maryland Heights Ramsroger wyoming II wrote:^ he's going to build a stadium in Howard Bend!
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What an amazing coincidence. Just two hours before the NFL meeting where fans are ready to blast Kroenke in front of NFL executives, a story surfaces in the media, (same media that Walmart props up with advertising), that Kroenke's associate is showing interest in a football stadium size property in Maryland Heights. Hmmm. Amazing coincidence.
In case no one posted this, an analysis of the impact on construction employment from the building of the Kiel (Scottrade) Center and TWA (Edward Jones) Dome published in 2001 by Phillip A. Miller at the Economic and Policy Analysis Research Center at Mizzou. He's now an Assistant Professor of Economics at Univ of MN- Mankato. The tables are missing.
http://krypton.mnsu.edu/~qp8847pw/paper ... 20docs.pdf
Hopefully it'll be different this time.the present study suggests that instead of creating new construction jobs, jobs were shifted from projects that would otherwise have been undertaken, resulting in no net new job creation in the construction industry.
http://krypton.mnsu.edu/~qp8847pw/paper ... 20docs.pdf
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Rumor is Enos is going to build a state-of-the-art facility affectionately called "The Big Muddy." It actually will be built over the Missouri River with entrances, parking lots, and drive-thru restaurants and pharmacies on both the St. Chuck's and Maryland Heights sides.
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Yep, and places like Austin, Portland, and Boston seem to be doing just fine without NFL teams. A football team is a negligible component of a city's success or failure.jstriebel wrote:And in St. Louis it's a proven part of a losing formula.sirshankalot wrote:Sure it does...They've proven it's PART of a winning formula....
It's not like this is our first go around at stadium building.
(With that said, I don't think it's a part of either formula. You can build stadiums because you want them, and doing so will cause a natural impact on other things. But whether you win or lose is based on so many more things. Things we suck at doing because we have terrible priorities.)
I'll post more later, but for the most part St. Louis showed itself well tonight, and the NFL representatives that were there seemed to agree and appreciate it.
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Randy Karraker is a Charter PSL holder, so he was there. He spoke and here is what he said.
https://soundcloud.com/101sports/randy- ... tion-panel
https://soundcloud.com/101sports/randy- ... tion-panel
First of all, Boston has a team called the New England Patriots. They play in the suburbs. Secondly, are you suggesting we will turn into a great weather city like Portland or Austin if we can just kill the stadium? St. Louis is a sports town -- we don't have much else.urban_dilettante wrote:Yep, and places like Austin, Portland, and Boston seem to be doing just fine without NFL teams. A football team is a negligible component of a city's success or failure.jstriebel wrote:And in St. Louis it's a proven part of a losing formula.sirshankalot wrote:Sure it does...They've proven it's PART of a winning formula....
It's not like this is our first go around at stadium building.
(With that said, I don't think it's a part of either formula. You can build stadiums because you want them, and doing so will cause a natural impact on other things. But whether you win or lose is based on so many more things. Things we suck at doing because we have terrible priorities.)
After jobs and family, people move to cities that have great entertainment, whether that is natural such as mountains or beaches, or man made such as sports teams. We don't have mountains, beaches, NBA, NASCAR, MLS, and soon no football. So exactly what entertainment would options would help us beat out Indy, Nashville, Denver, Minneapolis, Pittsburg, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, or KC if all other things are equal in the mind of a start-up recruit? This is economic war among Midwest cities, and we are losing.
I was impressed by the dedication and passion of the Rams fans at the NFL meeting tonight. Several drove 3 hours to be there, and do that for every Rams game. The speakers were passionate to the point of tears in many cases. An octogenarian had been an NFL season ticket holder for 50 years, going back to LA before he moved to St. Louis. He couldn't get through his notes, so his wife read them instead. Eric Grubman kept answering that he wasn't the one who would decide -- that would be up to the owners. So why were we here? Besides Randy Karraker, many read the NFL relocation rules to Eric, and asked how anyone could say Stan met them. Eric kept saying the guidelines only applied at a particular point in time, and are not a checklist but have to be looked at in general. The last guy pointed out that the NFL had very very strict rules for players, but rules for owners are just "guidelines."
One question I had was never asked -- Any normal business would just expand when it wanted to serve a new market. Stan would never decide to build a new Walmart in one market, and burn another one to the ground in another market where sales were still good. So why doesn't the NFL just EXPAND to LA, as if they were a business not protected from anti-trust laws, and stop putting loyal fans in three cities through this farce? But nobody asked that one.
One question I had was never asked -- Any normal business would just expand when it wanted to serve a new market. Stan would never decide to build a new Walmart in one market, and burn another one to the ground in another market where sales were still good. So why doesn't the NFL just EXPAND to LA, as if they were a business not protected from anti-trust laws, and stop putting loyal fans in three cities through this farce? But nobody asked that one.
F YEAH GO RANDY!!!!gary kreie wrote:Randy Karraker is a Charter PSL holder, so he was there. He spoke and here is what he said.
https://soundcloud.com/101sports/randy- ... tion-panel
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^ That is a GREAT question.One question I had was never asked -- Any normal business would just expand when it wanted to serve a new market. Stan would never decide to build a new Walmart in one market, and burn another one to the ground in another market where sales were still good. So why doesn't the NFL just EXPAND to LA, as if they were a business not protected from anti-trust laws, and stop putting loyal fans in three cities through this farce? But nobody asked that one.
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Supposedly Grubman said the proposed stadium would not be in the top 15 if it were built today.... I guess we could take a closer look to compare but I agree it isn't anything special (part of that is the large site-related costs). Anyway, whether the comment was true or not, I do think it is a reminder that a billionaire is out there who likes shiny things, and as I've speculated before, I wouldn't doubt he has some ideas of his own on stadium design and, potentially, location if he stays.
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I think he said in terms of revenue it would be 15-20...which is perfectly fine for the size of the market.
listen starting at about 3:15
he said strictly from $ side...but seems like it can be improved by upping suite prices and premium ticket prices ect.
listen starting at about 3:15
he said strictly from $ side...but seems like it can be improved by upping suite prices and premium ticket prices ect.