Bridge Detroit - State to replace I-375 in Detroit with ‘urban boulevard’
https://www.bridgedetroit.com/state-to- ... boulevard/
https://www.bridgedetroit.com/state-to- ... boulevard/
^ that’s what MoDot should do with all of the highways in the city limits. I would be happy with just one of them being removed though
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
While I'm all for the removal of I-44 in order to reconnect downtown to the river, the detour traffic on Tucker and Jefferson was a lot this weekend. A whole bunch of 18 wheelers going by at all hours.
I wonder how much of that was non-local traffic that could've used 270/255. Is there a way to require trucks to use the outer ring where possible instead of cutting through the city?
- 2,626
Removing this stretch of 44 would likely make cutting through the city slower which would cause GPS systems to re-route more traffic to 270/255
44 isn’t going anywhere, unless IDOT puts a ton of money into reconfiguring the interchange with 55/64/70 in the Metro East. We could have a downtown “bypass” but ramps would need to be added to that interchange to facilitate return traffic over the Musial bridge to 70.
A law dictating that thru truck traffic in the region must be regulated to the 270/255 loop would be ideal, but good luck getting that through the Missouri Legislature. I believe Atlanta has a similar law that requires thru truck traffic to use outer beltways and not travel though the interior of the region.
We’re stuck with 44 unless Illinois decides to untangle the mess they’ve created across the river. Until then, MoDot isn’t going to give up the only N/S highway connection in Missouri between Illinois and 270.
A law dictating that thru truck traffic in the region must be regulated to the 270/255 loop would be ideal, but good luck getting that through the Missouri Legislature. I believe Atlanta has a similar law that requires thru truck traffic to use outer beltways and not travel though the interior of the region.
We’re stuck with 44 unless Illinois decides to untangle the mess they’ve created across the river. Until then, MoDot isn’t going to give up the only N/S highway connection in Missouri between Illinois and 270.
I feel like this happens any time I've driven through Indy the last few years. 70 to Indianapolis is local Downtown traffic only._nomad_ wrote: ↑Sep 26, 2022I wonder how much of that was non-local traffic that could've used 270/255. Is there a way to require trucks to use the outer ring where possible instead of cutting through the city?dweebe wrote: ↑Sep 26, 2022While I'm all for the removal of I-44 in order to reconnect downtown to the river, the detour traffic on Tucker and Jefferson was a lot this weekend. A whole bunch of 18 wheelers going by at all hours.
Are they removing the highway? Reconfiguring? I assume they aren't removing judging by the insane number of lanes heading into Indianapolis.
- 991
No, it's not removing interstates. It's just a massive repaving and repair project. The roads got hit pretty hard with damage the last few years from some severe freeze thaw events.
- 6,119
^And there's always terrible road construction in Indiana. Wouldn't be Indiana without it. I'm sort of amazed they finally finished the project near Terre Haute. Seems like every state complains their roads are the worst, but I think Indiana might have a legit claim.
Looks like our last chance for a lifetime to consider something different. From Table 20. Tier I Connected 2050 Investment Priorities (2024 - 2030)
^ I see no chance of the 3rd Street Viaduct being removed. They completed a renovation on it a few years ago that replaced the concrete decking and whatnot.
St. Charles to O'Fallon Street could be different. Remove the viaduct and create a boulevard between Washington and Biddle. North of Biddle it dips back down into the existing trench and turns into I-70. This makes sense too, MoDot is rebuilding the Broadway bridge just north of O'Fallon and likely won't remove or reconfigure that once it's complete. On the south end, the existing trench is fine. Have it slope up and end at a light at Washington. Maybe in the distant future it could be decked over further but I don't even think that's necessary.
End the 44 designation at the 55 interchange and rename the corridor between the Poplar and Musial bridges something else. Maybe Memorial Drive comes back.
How do we potentially get MoDot to even consider it though? Who's the best person to put a bug in their ear? Ogilvie? An alderperson? I know local leaders have mentioned exploring highway removal in passing, but I don't believe there is any serious consideration for removal. Last I heard, MoDot wouldn't even consider it. Which brings me to my next point...
...currently there is no way to loop traffic around downtown via Illinois. Which I think is MoDot's primary sticking point. If the 70/64/55 interchange in the Metro East had ramps that could return traffic from the Poplar to the Musial, I think this would be a slam dunk. But those ramps don't exist and I'm not sure you could build them with the existing makeup of the interchanges over there.
St. Charles to O'Fallon Street could be different. Remove the viaduct and create a boulevard between Washington and Biddle. North of Biddle it dips back down into the existing trench and turns into I-70. This makes sense too, MoDot is rebuilding the Broadway bridge just north of O'Fallon and likely won't remove or reconfigure that once it's complete. On the south end, the existing trench is fine. Have it slope up and end at a light at Washington. Maybe in the distant future it could be decked over further but I don't even think that's necessary.
End the 44 designation at the 55 interchange and rename the corridor between the Poplar and Musial bridges something else. Maybe Memorial Drive comes back.
How do we potentially get MoDot to even consider it though? Who's the best person to put a bug in their ear? Ogilvie? An alderperson? I know local leaders have mentioned exploring highway removal in passing, but I don't believe there is any serious consideration for removal. Last I heard, MoDot wouldn't even consider it. Which brings me to my next point...
...currently there is no way to loop traffic around downtown via Illinois. Which I think is MoDot's primary sticking point. If the 70/64/55 interchange in the Metro East had ramps that could return traffic from the Poplar to the Musial, I think this would be a slam dunk. But those ramps don't exist and I'm not sure you could build them with the existing makeup of the interchanges over there.
Right now is the opportunity is to tell EW Gateway what you'd like to see in their Connected 2050 planning.
^ Yeah I always leave comments on this stuff. They usually get ignored though. I think to move something like this across the finish line it’s going to need one or more local champions. Someone who can engage with MoDot directly, in addition to the public surveys, meetings, etc. the rest of us have.
Maybe DB could represent the urbanSTL community
Maybe DB could represent the urbanSTL community
- 9,549
There is just no appetite for this whatsoever from elected leadership or someone like Greater STL Inc, of all the issues various groups are working on this isnt in the top 100
Ald Cohn might be a prospect for a champion. He's talked about the damage done to the city by highways and getting rid of them in the past.
I think the St. Louis mayor could easily champion this cause with Feds pushing equity/infrastructure funds for freeway removal as well as pay for it outright with Ram's settlement funds at no cost to the state. I think it is a no brainer to rid of the raised section of freeway between downtown/near northside & landing. But like you noted, off the radar.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jun 01, 2023There is just no appetite for this whatsoever from elected leadership or someone like Greater STL Inc, of all the issues various groups are working on this isnt in the top 100
What you think DB on ballpark cost - $10-15 million for A-E/demo existing raised section, $10 million to remake Wash Ave to an at grade intersection and another $25 million on blvd rebuild for a total of $75 million. Submit for FED grants you might get a 1/3 rd of it covered. So a $50 million city investment on future.
Wanted to add to Sc4Mayor comments, any I55 northbound traffic coming into the city to go I70 west or trying to get to Lambert has the ability and probably should be using I270 loop. So impacts is essentially near southside in reality.
If not, take some of the Ram's settlement funds and at least accelerate MoDOT's desire to get rid or reconfigure interchanges within the city. Especially the Market Street/I64 & Grand/I64 interchange messes.
- 9,549
Cost is probably $100-150mdredger wrote: ↑Jun 01, 2023I think the St. Louis mayor could easily champion this cause with Feds pushing equity/infrastructure funds for freeway removal as well as pay for it outright with Ram's settlement funds at no cost to the state. I think it is a no brainer to rid of the raised section of freeway between downtown/near northside & landing. But like you noted, off the radar.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jun 01, 2023There is just no appetite for this whatsoever from elected leadership or someone like Greater STL Inc, of all the issues various groups are working on this isnt in the top 100
What you think DB on ballpark cost - $10-15 million for A-E/demo existing raised section, $10 million to remake Wash Ave to an at grade intersection and another $25 million on blvd rebuild for a total of $75 million. Submit for FED grants you might get a 1/3 rd of it covered. So a $50 million city investment on future.
Wanted to add to Sc4Mayor comments, any I55 northbound traffic coming into the city to go I70 west or trying to get to Lambert has the ability and probably should be using I270 loop. So impacts is essentially near southside in reality.
If not, take some of the Ram's settlement funds and at least accelerate MoDOT's desire to get rid or reconfigure interchanges within the city. Especially the Market Street/I64 & Grand/I64 interchange messes.
Glad we are not the only ones thinking about this: https://www.stlmag.com/news/highway-rem ... -st-louis/
- 2,055
^I am so happy this is being discussed by someone outside of UrbanSTL - we should do this without hesitation.
I feel like MoDOT is generally one of the more forward thinking state DOTs in the Midwest, certainly more than most other red states.
So I would think that they would at least listen and work with the foundation, but I find it hard to believe that the state legislature would approve funding to remove this highway.
I kinda wanna see them put forward some replacement concepts. Like an at-grade avenue and I wonder if anymore developable land would pop up from replacing it.
So I would think that they would at least listen and work with the foundation, but I find it hard to believe that the state legislature would approve funding to remove this highway.
I kinda wanna see them put forward some replacement concepts. Like an at-grade avenue and I wonder if anymore developable land would pop up from replacing it.
This is very anti-urbanist, but I still think there needs to be a new I-55 bridge that crosses the river by Potomac.
![]()
- new bridge is built and could include a rail option
- all truck traffic must use the new bridge and is not allowed in the green part (except local)
- this includes I-44
- truck traffic is allowed in the orange part, but with tolls
- 270 and 255 remain toll free to send truck traffic that way
- 925
I was really hoping them getting involved in the Millenium site would get this brought up and it has! It is one of the more obvious highway removal projects out there and a big player bringing it back into discussion (after it was close to being sent to a planning stage back in 2010)
This would absolutely transform the riverfront, the national park, and downtown St. Louis. The time is right with some of the big projects being announced straddling the expressway. Think big!
This would absolutely transform the riverfront, the national park, and downtown St. Louis. The time is right with some of the big projects being announced straddling the expressway. Think big!