urbanSTL

Raise the gas taxes without Highway Patrol money loopholes.  Like someone said above, it would take a lot of work and money from MoDot.  It just seems like a high level of apathy.  "It works" for cars.  Even though that entire stretch is scary to even drive, especially when you hit the 55/44/64 interchange just south of the park.

I do agree on the building heights.  You'll still see the Arch, and the park is massive.  You're not going to be undoing the iconic scale.  We made a good first step on linking the park to Downtown.  Just sad that we couldn't get the complete vision and city planning common sense from all agency stakeholders.  Feels like we got a bandaid over a massive wound with the lid.  With all the money dumped into it, it just appears as another apathetic concession to the status quo and shortsighted archaic decisions from planners of two generations ago.

Even if the skyline grew three or four times in size, you would still see the Arch all of the time. I totally agree. You just can't ever eliminate that view of the Arch from up or down Broadway, or down Market, or a whole host of other spots. 

Another lot where I would love to see a tall building would at on the surface lot across Broadway from Busch Stadium. South of Tums. 

I would argue that the current Memorial drive should be turned into an alley behind an entire new strip of buildings facing the arch grounds in place of the current highway. Ideally it could be historical replicas of some of the lost riverfront buildings mixed with some towers if the market demands it.

Interesting idea. You might have 90 feet to work with.

I've considered that. But I feel like there would be so many headaches in trying to develop that land in front of Memorial Drive. 

Wouldn't the feds make that pretty difficult? 

If we could, I'd love to see the Old Cathedral become part of a new pedestrian street. 

It may be challenging to build any kind of parking infrastructure but blocks in Soulard are smaller, it can certainly be done.

It would certainly be cheaper and more attainable than retrofitting/replacing the existing Memorial drive street wall into something walkable.

Even if you built another row of buildings in front of Memorial Drive, and even if you turned Memorial Drive into a narrow alley, the expensive task of repurposing those older buildings would still have to be done. 

I honestly wouldn't hate the highway staying there if we could actually put a deck over it and create multiple easy and pleasant pedestrian entrances into the park. 

When I started this conversation, I honestly envisioned large landscaped areas in place of the highway, or on the decks over the highway in this case. 

I don't think the national park service is going to allow new buildings, like you said. But I do think they would work with the city and create pretty pedestrian spaces with native Missouri flowers and shrubs, benches, etc. I'd love to see a self-guided history tour or something like that along the path. 

My pipedream ideas never settle down. It'd be so cool if the national park service had a geospatial app that allowed you to wander around the Arch grounds and explore the old buildings that were lost for the creation of the Arch and national park. Setting the app to different time periods, from colonial times to the 1930s, would allow for different experiences and hours of entertainment.

The museum is free. Why can't it come up from under ground and join the rest of the park? I think residents and visitors alike would love that. 

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Dec 30, 2020

Never mind the highway technically being within the NPS boundary so they wouldn’t allow any new buildings anyway.

It is? The parcel map doesn't include it.

KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Dec 30, 2020

You gotta at least give me the Hyatt.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

You gotta check out what the Hyatt used to look like before it was reclad and expanded.
https://www.builtstlouis.net/opos/piercebuilding.html

bigreid74 wrote: ↑

Dec 30, 2020

KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Dec 30, 2020

You gotta at least give me the Hyatt.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

You gotta check out what the Hyatt used to look like before it was reclad and expanded.
https://www.builtstlouis.net/opos/piercebuilding.html

If that could be in some way restored, I would gladly keep that Hyatt. That building clearly had ground level activation. 

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Dec 30, 2020

^ a mid-rise (really, low-rise) in the vein of Chroma/Hue would be a huge waste of space/disappointment for that site.

I don't see adding 350+ units of residential density where there is currently a single abandoned hotel annex building as a waste of space. DT needs more mixed use (retail/residential) development filling its voids and activating its streets. As nice as more towers would be anywhere Downtown, it'd also be great for DT to see more low and mid-rise infill in empty/abandoned pockets like the Millennium lot. 

It's an interesting lot being between the Ballpark and Arch, but it's not like it's in high demand - sitting unsold and empty for seven years. Its neighbors include a block sized empty lot, a block-sized parking garage and an interstate highway. With the demand for office space non-existent, residential + retail along 4th (facing the Ballpark/Clark) seems like the way to go. 

bigreid74 wrote: ↑

Dec 30, 2020

KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Dec 30, 2020

You gotta at least give me the Hyatt.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

You gotta check out what the Hyatt used to look like before it was reclad and expanded.
https://www.builtstlouis.net/opos/piercebuilding.html

Criminal

KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Dec 30, 2020

I honestly wouldn't hate the highway staying there if we could actually put a deck over it and create multiple easy and pleasant pedestrian entrances into the park. 

When I started this conversation, I honestly envisioned large landscaped areas in place of the highway, or on the decks over the highway in this case. 

IIRC this was part of the original plan of CityArchRiver but at some point was pared down to the small section at Luther Ely Smith Park.

OnTheEdge wrote: ↑

Dec 30, 2020

KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Dec 30, 2020

I honestly wouldn't hate the highway staying there if we could actually put a deck over it and create multiple easy and pleasant pedestrian entrances into the park. 

When I started this conversation, I honestly envisioned large landscaped areas in place of the highway, or on the decks over the highway in this case. 

IIRC this was part of the original plan of CityArchRiver but at some point was pared down to the small section at Luther Ely Smith Park.

Even just stretching it from Walnut to Pine would have made a big difference in the overall sense of connectivity and impact on those Arch facing blocks. 

More than ever, I believe that Hyatt needs to be brought to the ground. 

Of course, I would want a replacement planned and financed before bringing in the wrecking balls.... but the Hyatt has got to go. 

KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Dec 30, 2020

More than ever, I believe that Hyatt needs to be brought to the ground. 

Of course, I would want a replacement planned and financed before bringing in the wrecking balls.... but the Hyatt has got to go. 

Sure, the Hyatt (nee Adams Mark) is kind of ugly and uninviting (and a brutal comparison to how it used to look). But the Kiener Garages are in a league of their own when it comes to prioritizing wrecking and replacing buildings in the core/front door of Downtown. 

OnTheEdge wrote: ↑

Dec 30, 2020

KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Dec 30, 2020

I honestly wouldn't hate the highway staying there if we could actually put a deck over it and create multiple easy and pleasant pedestrian entrances into the park. 

When I started this conversation, I honestly envisioned large landscaped areas in place of the highway, or on the decks over the highway in this case. 

IIRC this was part of the original plan of CityArchRiver but at some point was pared down to the small section at Luther Ely Smith Park.

Yes, they wanted three blocks of lid, but then it would be a tunnel instead of a bridge and that cost too much.

wabash wrote: ↑

Dec 30, 2020

KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Dec 30, 2020

More than ever, I believe that Hyatt needs to be brought to the ground. 

Of course, I would want a replacement planned and financed before bringing in the wrecking balls.... but the Hyatt has got to go. 

Sure, the Hyatt (nee Adams Mark) is kind of ugly and uninviting (and a brutal comparison to how it used to look). But the Kiener Garages are in a league of their own when it comes to prioritizing wrecking and replacing buildings in the core/front door of Downtown. 

I've already targeted the Kiener garages in this thread. They, as well as a whole bunch of other stuff along the Gateway Mall, should eventually be replaced with much, much better. 

It is absolutely stunning - in a bad way - that those garages are on the Mall.