urbanSTL

What is the point of it?

flipz wrote:What is the point of it?

While it would still seem to be a fine, not great solution, I would think it would make the walk from downtown to the Arch Grounds and riverfront a bit more inviting. Or perhaps more accurate a bit less uninviting.

flipz wrote:What is the point of it?

Reduced traffic noise right next to the park.

gary kreie wrote:

flipz wrote:What is the point of it?

Reduced traffic noise right next to the park.

No offense, but that seems like a waste of money to me. The park is essentially in the middle of downtown, noise is to be expected and I don't think a deterrent for visitors. Personally I think the lower section of the highway isn't really the issue, the raised section just north of it is (and also the highway monstrosity to the south, where 44 and 55 merge into 10 lanes each way but we're not talking about that here)

Originally, the lid idea was to cover three blocks, not just one. Since that would constitute a tunnel and require expensive venting and escape routes, apparently, they opted for one block only. I was just wondering if a roof like the one over a highway in Cologne might be an affordable compromise. Or we could just let someone build a privately funded skyscraper right over the highway. (Oops. Shouldn't have gone there.)

I like the idea, especially since MoDOT seems completely reluctant to the mere thought of removing I-44 through downtown. I hold out hope that, if the highway can't be eliminated altogether, that the lid could somehow be expanded to include blocks to the north since Memorial Drive is going to shrink to just southbound lanes in that area anyway.

I don't think it would be to bad of an outcome to add some sound reducing overhead structure that mirrors or complements the Arch because the reality is that the trench is going to be there for the foreseeable future. To me the experience is from the city to the park to the river the day that the Arch was decided upon. A built structure that somehow masks the highway trench but transitions to a different environment would work in mind. Yes, downtown is going to be noisy but for me that works when your on a sidewalk with a street on side and a built structure on the other.
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The frustrating part IMO is not the trench but the raised section of the freeway, talk about low hanging fruit if torn down for an at grade Washington Ave intersection and a replacement blvd to the Stan M Span. Which makes even more sense now that Tucker Ave is rebuilt. It would be a huge benefit for downtown, Bottle District, Lacledes Landing and any Convention Center upgrades/new football stadium at a fraction of the cost and with minimal impact to traffic times. On top of it, you want as much of the built environment in your face sound of the street not an overhead expressway in part of the city that is still has semblance of a built environment.

This is where Slay keeps letting the city down infrastructure wise in return for the regional harmony. He should have never let the traffic study for the removal of the raised section be dropped and/or have the city fund its own traffic study to put in everyone's face including the East West Gateway Council. Heck, he might even get some respect out of Stan K who might be more willing to put his millions back into the city if given a vision of what a new urban riverfront stadium with its associated development possibilities could be instead of another surface parking lot mecca plan in Fenton that you would get from Gov Nixon or Dooley staff or a 60 acre plot of land in LA for that matter. Slay just won't push an urban vision for the one part of the metro area that should be and will excel at being the urban core.

Spotted in the Saint Joseph News-Press:

Imagine driving Downtown, along the riverfront, and not seeing the I-229 bridge above you. MoDOT does. “We’re seriously looking at the possibility of dropping that bridge. It’s a maintenance nightmare and a barrier to the river,” Mr. Wichern [MODOT area engineer] says.

But the interstate would need to be decommissioned on the federal level — not an easy task — and replaced with a state road. “It wouldn’t cost as much as you might think,” Mr. Wichern says. “But it would take years.”

http://www.newspressnow.com/opinion/edi ... f7905.html

Here is the detour for this weekend when the depressed lanes will close for the installation of steel beams for the park over the highway. We can think of it as a poor man's boulevard, I suppose.

http://www.modot.org/eMoDOTWeb/displayA ... do?id=1121

Now that the girders are in, the size of the deck is certainly...underwhelming.

One block covered; three or four (or more?) blocks of the depressed lanes gash through downtown still right there.

Is the "Lid" a case of "half a loaf" (or a third or a quarter of one) being better than no loaf at all?

I rank it better than Tsunami Soaker, but not as good as Evil Knievel/American Thunder. I'm holding out hope that it's kind of like Boomerang...better than it first appears. But I don't think there's any way it'll be the bargain Boomerang was.

I give it 6 slices of rye, sliced thick and a burnt biscuit.

Kansas City recently hosted a forum discussing removal of the City's North Loop, which would connect River Market with Downtown.

http://kansascity.uli.org/news/kansas-c ... nce-panel/

http://kansascity.uli.org/get-involved/uli-action/

What happened? I wasn't into urban planning or development when City to River was proposed. Who dropped the ball, politicians or funding?

^^ removing an INTERSTATE isnt a battle to have with MoDOT. It's with FWHA and EastWest Gateway. And the Illionis members of EWGateway board (which make up half the board) will never go for it. And the Missouri side is divided. St.charles would vote with Illinois side to keep it

Fantastic recap, CarexCurator.

In my ideal world, 55 would cross the river before the bend by the Lemp brewery and roughly follow the alignment of Illinois Route 3 and then allow motorists to cross back over the PSB, Eads, MLK, Stan into downtown. Doing so would add like what, 5 minutes on average to a commute? Replace the old interstate with an extension of Truman Parkway and room for a southside MetroLink line. It all gets a bit trickier when you factor 44 in though...

What is our next realistic chance/opportunity to get I-70 removed? We really missed a golden opportunity to do it with the Arch grounds redo. Its frustrating having to spend all this time and money to undo the mistakes of the past. This being one of those.

cardinalstl wrote:What is our next realistic chance/opportunity to get I-70 removed? We really missed a golden opportunity to do it with the Arch grounds redo. Its frustrating having to spend all this time and money to undo the mistakes of the past. This being one of those.

well 70 is long gone, its 44 now....but seriously....MoDOT will be re starting a study to look at 70 from Wentzville to reverseable lanes downtown....and with the way new bridge was built....i don't see any interstate changes downtown. At this point ripping out what CAR did to 44 (lid ect) would have to be paid back to the Feds...$25-30 million.

matguy70 wrote:I'm confused...
MoDOT is doing what exactly with the Wentzville to Downtown?

MoDOT is going to be studying the feasibility of extending the I-70 Express Lanes to Wentzville. Would be a massive waste, IMO. Would be more efficient to implement HOV lanes throughout the area, or at ban trucks on I-64.

70 doesn't even back up all that bad does it? I haven't taken it too much but when I do it is a breeze compared to 64. I agree that is seems like a waste.

Chalupas54 wrote:

matguy70 wrote:I'm confused...
MoDOT is doing what exactly with the Wentzville to Downtown?

MoDOT is going to be studying the feasibility of extending the I-70 Express Lanes to Wentzville. Would be a massive waste, IMO. Would be more efficient to implement HOV lanes throughout the area, or at ban trucks on I-64.

No...thats not what the study is doing, there is no reason to expand those silly things...the traffic patterns in the region have changed since those were put in. if anything the I-70 Express Lanes will be gone. the study is a PEL https://www.environment.fhwa.dot.gov/integ/index.asp