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PostNov 14, 2012#376

^ The Woodall Rodgers Freeway is a state highway, not an interstate. The deck covering the highway is about 1200 ft long. Compare that to the proposed 3-block lid which would have been about 1000 ft long. Klyde Warren Park cost $110 million to build.
In the meantime, Chad Sour, who's handling PR for the park, answers a question many Friends of Unfair Park ask every time we bring up the deck park: How will they clear the air in the tunnel being created where once there was a canyon? "In October, workers will complete the installation of 32 jet fans that will be monitored and controlled by computers at all times to protect air quality," he says via email. I called for further clarification, and he said they'll be similar to what's in place in the Addison Airport Toll Tunnel.

"Because if there's a fire in the tunnel, they need to get smoke out of there fast, or if there's a carbon monoxide warning, they'll be triggered," he says. "Computers will constantly monitor the air quality, and if they need to clean the air, they'll turn on."
Dallas Observer

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PostNov 14, 2012#377

STL missed the first step for any Arch grounds/Memorial Drive project: de-designate I-70 from Interstate to state highway. THEN you can get to work.

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PostNov 16, 2012#378

Friday this resolution will be introduced at the St. Louis Board of Aldermen. At some point in the next month or two there will be at least one public hearing for the issue conducted by the Transportation and Commerce Committee, chaired by Alderman Kennedy. When I know the date I will post it. The hearings will provide a forum for proponents of all solutions to the I-70 issue a chance to air their views, and will most likely include testimony of involved parties like MoDOT, etc. If the resolution ultimately passes, it simply expresses the opinion of the full Board, but is not binding on MoDOT.

Scott Ogilvie
24th Ward Alderman

Resolution Number 174
Resolution to Remove the Downtown Elevated Lanes of I-70

Whereas, the National Park Service has stated in their General Management Plan a desire for better connectivity to downtown along the north and south edges of the JNEM and that I-70 is an impediment to such connectivity; and

Whereas, the St. Louis Chapter of American Institute of Architects, Landmarks Association of St. Louis, Laclede’s Landing Redevelopment Corporation, Laclede’s Landing Merchant’s Association, St. Louis Convention & Visitors Commission, Citizens for Modern Transit, Open Space Council, City of St. Louis Mayor’s Vanguard Cabinet – Planning and Land Use Committee, and the William Kerr Foundation have endorsed the removal of the elevated sections of I-70 as an urban design solution; and

Whereas, all five finalists in the City Arch River Design Competition advocated for removing I-70 to improve connectivity between the Arch and downtown St. Louis, noting that Memorial Drive could not be activated and utilized to its full potential until I-70 is removed from downtown; and

Whereas, I-70 will soon be rerouted over the new bridge into Illinois, making the stretch of former I-70 between the Poplar Street Bridge and Cass Avenue redundant; and

Whereas, due to the new bridge, traffic will be diverted into Illinois and reduced along the present I-70 corridor in downtown St. Louis. An at-grade boulevard in place of the elevated lanes can potentially accommodate up to 50,000 cars per day, sufficient for the traffic that would remain in St. Louis city; and

Whereas, the removal of I-70 and creation of an at-grade boulevard will provide new economic opportunities with the creation of new and expanded buildable parcels as well as opening up now isolated districts to redevelopment. This will bring new jobs, new residents, and ultimately new revenue for the city; and

Whereas, removing the elevated lanes of I-70 and replacing them with a boulevard creates connections between the Mississippi River and the City of St. Louis, particularly in the areas of Laclede’s Landing and the Bottle District, improving access for both pedestrians and automobiles and re-establishing St. Louis' historic connection to its riverfront; and

Whereas, the U.S. DOT, in their 2010-2015 Strategic Plan (April 15, 2010) stated, “In this era of limited resources, achieving a State of Good Repair will require DOT and our State partner agencies to take a strategic approach by considering and evaluating where transportation and community needs have changed over time. As parts of our major roadway systems reach the end of their useful lives and must be replaced at significant cost, those portions in center cities should be identified that, because of employment and residential decentralization, no longer serve central transportation goals and are capable of being decommissioned or downsized. In such instances, a wiser public investment might be to reclaim the land for commercial and community use, particularly in economically distressed communities. For example, after the Loma Prieta earthquake, San Francisco tore down the damaged Embarcadero Freeway in 1991 rather than rebuild it, reuniting the waterfront and downtown and spurring new commercial development. Similarly, Fort Worth relocated a portion of its interstate away from its downtown, and cities like Seattle, Phoenix, San Diego, and Hartford have capped their downtown interstates with decks in order to reclaim land for parks, museums, schools, and housing.”; and

Whereas, in February 2012, the St. Louis Development Corporation issued a
"Request for Proposals for Downtown Multimodal Access Study" that asks the
selected consultant to "address the potential removal of the elevated sections
of I-70 from north of Pine St. to O’Fallon St, to determine feasibility and
traffic  impacts should the elevated sections be completely removed, brought to
grade, and what various alternatives might be considered for this  scenario to
occur long-term." This major objective of the study is recommendations for
connecting downtown to the riverfront acknowledging the obstacle posed by the
elevated lanes of Interstate 70.



Now therefore be it resolved by the St. Louis Board of Aldermen that the City of 
St. Louis and its agencies shall work toward removal of the elevated lanes of 
Interstate 70 and their replacement by a suitable at-grade roadway upon the
 opening of the new Mississippi River bridge that will carry I-70, and that the Transportation & Commerce Committee shall hold public hearings to investigate the aforementioned and shall invite stakeholders on the subject to provide testimony.

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PostNov 16, 2012#379

^That's great news!

PostNov 16, 2012#380

Who is introducing it? Is this an issue where aldermanic courtesy comes into play?

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PostNov 16, 2012#381

I'm introducing it. I should say it was put together by some active St. Louisans. Not sure if this will be a "courtesy" issue or not, but resolutions on most things are essentially non-binding, although they do allow committees to call people in to provide testimony, which is part of their value.

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PostNov 16, 2012#382

Very interesting, Scott. Good work! Is this the announcement Alex was teasing us with in this thread in October?

If nothing else perhaps this can help to garner some media attention to the issue.

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PostNov 16, 2012#383

Thanks for doing this. Great summary of points favoring the removal of I-70.

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PostNov 29, 2012#384

New TED talk up about how to minimize traffic. They charged a small $1 or $2 congestion fee and decreased traffic into a city center by 20%. That amount doesn't seem like much, but it was sufficient to basically eliminate all traffic jams. Once the new bridge is complete, maybe a hefty user fee of $10+ could be tested to see how the city does without the I-70 depressed lanes.

Here is the link:
http://www.ted.com/talks/jonas_eliasson ... _jams.html

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PostNov 29, 2012#385

realclear wrote:New TED talk up about how to minimize traffic. They charged a small $1 or $2 congestion fee and decreased traffic into a city center by 20%. That amount doesn't seem like much, but it was sufficient to basically eliminate all traffic jams. Once the new bridge is complete, maybe a hefty user fee of $10+ could be tested to see how the city does without the I-70 depressed lanes.

Here is the link:
http://www.ted.com/talks/jonas_eliasson ... _jams.html
Why? St. Louis doesn't have a traffic problem for all intent and purposes. Sorry, between living in Chicago, St. Louis and now San Fran Bay area as well as working everywhere else it amuses me that anyone thinks St. Louis has a congestion problem. The idea of adding a congestion fee will only convince people to convince their employers to go somewhere else in a region where space is cheap or convince someone not to bother with downtown the second time around. I think the idea fails on the economic reality that their is not enough demand and thus value on space downtown. The same reason why I think jacking up the parking fees will convince those with capital to build on surface lots without demand is pure fantasy.

What St. Louis has a barrier problem between its urban core and the river that was the basis of its existence. Instead, remove the raise section after the MRB is built and then you will see how quick the idea of needing a freeway will go away.

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PostNov 29, 2012#386

STL would be fine regarding traffic without I-70 downtown and without congestion pricing.

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PostNov 29, 2012#387

dredger wrote:
realclear wrote:New TED talk up about how to minimize traffic. They charged a small $1 or $2 congestion fee and decreased traffic into a city center by 20%. That amount doesn't seem like much, but it was sufficient to basically eliminate all traffic jams. Once the new bridge is complete, maybe a hefty user fee of $10+ could be tested to see how the city does without the I-70 depressed lanes.

Here is the link:
http://www.ted.com/talks/jonas_eliasson ... _jams.html
Why? St. Louis doesn't have a traffic problem for all intent and purposes. Sorry, between living in Chicago, St. Louis and now San Fran Bay area as well as working everywhere else it amuses me that anyone thinks St. Louis has a congestion problem. The idea of adding a congestion fee will only convince people to convince their employers to go somewhere else in a region where space is cheap or convince someone not to bother with downtown the second time around. I think the idea fails on the economic reality that their is not enough demand and thus value on space downtown. The same reason why I think jacking up the parking fees will convince those with capital to build on surface lots without demand is pure fantasy.

What St. Louis has a barrier problem between its urban core and the river that was the basis of its existence. Instead, remove the raise section after the MRB is built and then you will see how quick the idea of needing a freeway will go away.

That would be my main concern as well. The last thing we need is to drive (pun unintended) people away from the center of the city. This isn't Manhattan or London we're talking about.

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PostNov 30, 2012#388

My thoughts are along the lines of a methodically divide and conquer mentality. Just wish for St. Louis sake that Slay would embrace a long term infrastructure plan for downtown St. Louis, outline what needs to be done and how it beneftis and encourages economic growth. Building and rehabbing parks/civic spaces is not enough.

First) The sooner the remants 22nd street pkway go away the better, everything is in place and City/MoDOT already have agreed to such an outcome. If anything, McKee's northside plan for this immediate area is halfway decent in my mind. This needs to start happening in 2013 and I think it could go forward one way or another no matter what the outcome of MO Supreme court decision on Northside is.

Second) Remove Rasied section of 1-70 downtown between Pine and new MRB. I believe St. Louis Downtown group has already called for the traffic/or going forward with much needed traffic study outlining impacts. I really think you make the argument that this needed going forward for the sake of Edwards Dome/Rams/CVC/McKees Northside Bottleworks. A 2015 timeframe is doable and a Hwy 40 rebuild type plan to do it is the best (design build with full closure of route)

Third) The long term goal is a comprehensive replacement of the trench. When you have solid growth and development on all sides of downtown you have a much much stronger argument. In the meantime, I think near term investments on the first two projects would be a huge step forward and very much doable and agreeable by a lot of parties.

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PostNov 30, 2012#389

Maybe I wasn't making my point very well. I'm not suggesting that we implement city wide congestion pricing. Instead, I think charging people to use only the depressed section could be a low cost - revenue generating way to prove the lanes are unnecessary.

It's highly possible that the state will still be dragging their heels on this by the time the bridge opens. If the blvd is not in the works by that time, then charge people ten bucks to drive in the depressed lanes. This will show how quickly and painlesly people can alter their commutes. It's a way to prove the viability of C2Rs concept while preventing reactionary whining.

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PostNov 30, 2012#390

^ Right. Crazy though, huh? I mean we CLOSED 5mi segments of I-64 for two years. What happened? Some more traffic here and there. Forest Park Parkway was actually being used. Some people had to wait through stop light cycles at peak use...that's about it. Sorry to shout, but WE KNOW FROM OUR OWN EXPERIENCE THAT THIS WILL WORK.

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PostNov 30, 2012#391

^Exactly. They shut own a whole highway and life continued. I'm just saying congestion pricing is a less drastic way to make the same point.

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PostNov 30, 2012#392

I wish I couldve made it to the talk last night. From all the tweets, it seemed pretty cool.

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PostNov 30, 2012#393

stlien wrote:I wish I couldve made it to the talk last night. From all the tweets, it seemed pretty cool.
From what I heard, whoever was speaking from City To River really missed an opportunity to showcase their vision and educate everyone what their vision is, City To River assumed everyone was already familiar with their vision and concept and failed to captivate the audience.

Personally, I think that they need to beef up their marketing of the vision - get on TV, radio, posters around town, get a rally going, something... hell, get a demonstration on the highway with a wall of people and block traffic.

The only way to get this REALLY moving is to capture more of the public's attention - we cant wait for every CNU official to stroll into town to ramp up the talk on removing the highway - City To River needs to start actively promoting.

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PostNov 30, 2012#394

Well, that person for City to River was me. It wasn't a City to River event, however. It was a CNU-John Norquist 1hr talk about streets and highways. Myself and a rep from Trailnet simply introduced ourselves at the end and thanked people for coming. I/we do not assume that people are familiar with the vision, but again, the event last night wasn't about us, per se. I do believe, however, that my brief comments were, in fact, captivating. :)

It's great to hear the enthusiasm and call for more from City to River. We very much need more people as part of our small organization (I currently serve as Chair). CNU gives us a lift and John was interviewed on KMOX and KWMU and there are write-ups in the PD and Beacon. There will be additional events in the spring which will be specifically focused on City to River and I-70 downtown. We purposely started with a general presentation to heighten awareness of the basic issue.

Part of the issue we have experienced as City to River is that many people say "they need to..." do this and that. We have four individuals running our effort - all with families and full-time jobs. We run with $0. From the beginning, the entire effort (understanding our personal limitations and those of a tiny advocacy group) has been focused on uploading the idea to others - that they carry the torch. We have now assembled a coalition of property owners, downtown residents, are gaining a political voice and have CNU/Norquist helping with the message. Ultimately it's the public that needs to be loud about this.

I'm more than happy to continue this discussion here, or better yet, off-line, with anyone interested in helping.

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PostNov 30, 2012#395

^I'm interested in helping. Filled out the sign up page on your website last night.

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PostNov 30, 2012#396

I had a funny feeling that it was probably you speaking and given that I was was unable to attend I can only go by word-of-mouth but knowing your understanding and familiarity with everything involved I'm sure you did a good job - I wouldn't doubt that.

I'm ready to help - I'm pretty sure I signed up for the mailing list twice and am willing to donate my professional (landscape architect/urban planner/gis technical/graphic design) skills.

P.S. At my firm, we are working with The Landing/MoDOT/MVVA/City on preparing plans for improving the Third Street Streetscape between Wash Ave and Laclede's Landing Blvd as well as improving what's underneath the raised portion of the highway, streetscape next to the Hampton Inn Hotel and the pedestrian connections from the Dome/Convention Center to the Landing (a fairly large area).

So, work is evolving to re-define the urban realm next to the highway and creating a concept that would fit into the vision of a future boulevard alongside this improved space.

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PostNov 30, 2012#397

HA. OK - it's on us, City to River, to engage those who volunteer. We're working on it. In terms of the work you mention - we oppose it in general because it's millions in infrastructure investment that will preclude serious consideration of I-70 removal. The message is/will be, "We just spent $XMs on making it better, new intersections, sidewalks, signals, etc. and you want to do WHAT?"

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PostNov 30, 2012#398

The majority (70%) of our work would be cohesive with the building of a boulevard, (i.e., improvements that would complement the addition of a boulevard); the rest is dealing with a already bad situation (elevated highway) and improving pedestrian connections, defining public realm and pedestrian scale, and developing underutilized land into attractive and inviting spaces (see below).

The long plaza to the west of the parking lot would be in somewhat similar fashion to Harry Bridges Plaza along San Francisco Embarcadero - it would be a definable edge of the Landing (with similar industrial materials) and would be a gathering place for events, beer gardens, festivals, concerts, etc. A proposed residential tower at the corner of Third Street/Eads Bridge would further enhance the urban fabric and character of the space. The only proposed improvements that would disappear with the boulevard would be whats happening under the highway (a concrete wall with mosaic tiles, sidewalk, landscape plantings and relocated historic cast iron lights).


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PostNov 30, 2012#399

Is this the same as the latest MoDOT update? http://www.modot.org/stlouis/major_proj ... ighway.htm

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PostNov 30, 2012#400

Yes and No.

We have made changes to MoDOT's plans to integrate more urban streetscape principles. MoDOT's version wasn't bad but still treated Third Street similar to a suburban outer road. We eliminated the road that bisects under the highway to connect to the surface parking lot entrance/exit and converted the Third Street/Morgan Street intersection from signalized to a stop sign. Lastly, we added more on-street parking on Third Street and the street adjacent to Hampton Inn.

MoDOT says that they are committed to creating pedestrian-friendly streets but everything during this process from MoDOT has been 'Move the Cars' suburban-oriented concepts.

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