With South Grand and Downtown CIDs
- 1,793
Does that Union Station number include hotel receipts?
- 9,526
everything that has a sales taxJaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Sep 14, 2023Does that Union Station number include hotel receipts?
- 9,526
Went back to 2014 too, the % is difference between 2014-2023
Btw, inflation in metro STL during this time (2014-2023) was 21.5%
Btw, inflation in metro STL during this time (2014-2023) was 21.5%
In FY23 STL ran a $75.6m budget surplus, w/ $33.7m coming from higher than projected rev & $41.9m from spending less than budgeted. Half goes into capital projects & other half in rainy day fund which is now $128.4m or 22.6% of FY24 budget, well above recommended 16.7% by GFOA
https://t.co/B0AP4XIZmD
https://t.co/B0AP4XIZmD
St. Louis City received a credit rating boost from Moodys effective September 2023, upgrading to A2 from A3.
City could end this decade with all three credit ratings in “High Quality”.
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City could end this decade with all three credit ratings in “High Quality”.
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Here's the FY24 Capital Improvements plan, which was figuring $24M from the FY23 surplus.
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... dopted.pdf
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... dopted.pdf
I'm all for fiscal probity and prudence, but that $41.9M in saved expenses represents a whole lot of basic city services not delivered. Everywhere I look I still see gaping potholes, overflowing trash and (non)recycle bins in alleys, trash scattered and blowing in/around highway overpasses and major intersections, tent cities of the unhoused (soon to feature open sewers), etc., and numerous other signs of decay suggesting sh*t is actually still quite hosed in our fair City.
When/how will these great budget numbers and huge pots of Kroenke Koins and Biden Bucks translate into actual tangible improvements for residents (as opposed to county normies and tourists here for an evening/weekend, for whom I grant the situation has improved)? In other words, amenities are great, but I'd trade them all to get my local streets paved, dead trees trimmed/removed, trash picked up timely, etc. Maybe failing to spend $42M budgeted for those purposes isn't great?
When/how will these great budget numbers and huge pots of Kroenke Koins and Biden Bucks translate into actual tangible improvements for residents (as opposed to county normies and tourists here for an evening/weekend, for whom I grant the situation has improved)? In other words, amenities are great, but I'd trade them all to get my local streets paved, dead trees trimmed/removed, trash picked up timely, etc. Maybe failing to spend $42M budgeted for those purposes isn't great?
- 1,793
- 9,526
Yes, although I am not entirely sure now that the cid includes the hotel. I think it does but not 100%
- 1,607
I a personally of the belief that the City should treat the rams money like an endowment, and harvest 12+ million a year from it. That boost to the bottom line could pave a lot of streets, year after year after year.
The city needs a boost now, and it needs money later. I would probably take out a 100 million dollar loan/bond, and then pay it back using the next ten years of interest. That way we can have a short term cash infusion for infrastructure and public safety, and still have a real nest egg later on
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I could not agree more....you'll have that money last in perpetuity..TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Nov 13, 2023I a personally of the belief that the City should treat the rams money like an endowment, and harvest 12+ million a year from it. That boost to the bottom line could pave a lot of streets, year after year after year.
- 1,792
ugh. Why hold it in endowment? The faith in our ability to wisely spend a windfall is both hilarious and depressing. It is reflective of our collective cynicism.courtland wrote: ↑Nov 13, 2023I could not agree more....you'll have that money last in perpetuity..TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Nov 13, 2023I a personally of the belief that the City should treat the rams money like an endowment, and harvest 12+ million a year from it. That boost to the bottom line could pave a lot of streets, year after year after year.
Why issue municipal bonds today and pay interest on those bonds for years while you have money sitting idly sitting collecting less return. The city NEEDS to maintain a financial cushion in case of emergency. Beyond whatever level that is financially prudent, holding money in reserve is only reflective of a few things.
- You don't know what to spend it on
- You don't trust anyone to spend it prudently and effectively
I think distrust in Saint Louis’a ability to spend money is reasonable and well earned. We are in the process of spending the COVID money anyways, so it might be best to let the dust clear on that and see what worked and what didn’t. Also, WashU has an endowment and never seems to be hurting for money. I think that’s something we could emulate
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There's $128M in the reserve fund earning interest. I doubt the city can turn it over to WashU's endowment managers to get the sort of return they do. Inflation would eat up most of the interest on the Rams money. There's higher ROI stuff to do like lead abatement or replacing water mains before they break, upgrading city IT to help staff be more productive, etc.
- 1,792
I am not saying the city should rush to spend it, but holding it in endowment in perpetuity is not wisdom. It's fear.dtgwvc wrote: ↑Nov 13, 2023I think distrust in Saint Louis’a ability to spend money is reasonable and well earned. We are in the process of spending the COVID money anyways, so it might be best to let the dust clear on that and see what worked and what didn’t. Also, WashU has an endowment and never seems to be hurting for money. I think that’s something we could emulate
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Distrust is reasonable and well-earned but should not be a state in perpetuity either.
Also WashUs endowment is sort of immoral in its own way. That money is not really needed by the university or its students so while I think it should be spent as well I don't know how it could be spent prudently on a campus so affluent.
- 1,607
I am willing to hear this side out but I need to know 2 things and tell you one:STLEnginerd wrote: ↑Nov 13, 2023ugh. Why hold it in endowment? The faith in our ability to wisely spend a windfall is both hilarious and depressing. It is reflective of our collective cynicism.courtland wrote: ↑Nov 13, 2023I could not agree more....you'll have that money last in perpetuity..TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Nov 13, 2023I a personally of the belief that the City should treat the rams money like an endowment, and harvest 12+ million a year from it. That boost to the bottom line could pave a lot of streets, year after year after year.
Why issue municipal bonds today and pay interest on those bonds for years while you have money sitting idly sitting collecting less return. The city NEEDS to maintain a financial cushion in case of emergency. Beyond whatever level that is financially prudent, holding money in reserve is only reflective of a few things.
There are serious problems in St. Louis. Some of these can be fixed with money. If there is money in the current budget to address these issues that can be redirected without sacrificing some other worthy spending priority then there is no doubt they should do that. Should we not fix them while these funds slowly evaporate over time due to inflation. NOTHING LASTS IN PERPYou
- You don't know what to spend it on
- You don't trust anyone to spend it prudently and effectively
What is the "prudent cushion" you envision? Given the size of our budget, I would consider ~100mil prudent.
What are the major issues you see immediately solvable with money now?
My endowment suggestion is not derived from fear. I consider city government like I would a flooring project at home. There is going to be 5-15% waste that is unavoidable. My suggestion was based on the idea we could earn interest / return and use that money for the foreseeable future to pave streets, fix sidewalk, improve lighting, street diets and ped friendly improvements. Imagine if we could do 2 7th St streetscape style improvement projects a year (obviously I'm not suggesting only for DT, but throughout the city), while maintaining a financial cushion for the next two decades.
I would love to see projects similar KC’s MAX “BRT” bus corridors alongside street rebuilds/beautification. KC’s latest project only cost the city 12.5 million dollars. We could overhaul every major arterial in the city over the next 20 years.
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- 1,792
From this threadTheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Nov 15, 2023I am willing to hear this side out but I need to know 2 things and tell you one:
dbInSouthCity wrote:In FY23 STL ran a $75.6m budget surplus, w/ $33.7m coming from higher than projected rev & $41.9m from spending less than budgeted. Half goes into capital projects & other half in rainy day fund which is now $128.4m or 22.6% of FY24 budget, well above recommended 16.7% by GFOA
https://t.co/B0AP4XIZmD
SO seems to me GFOA recommendation should be the floor. Currently we exceed that by 6% which is millions of dollars in itself. Prudence means using the money to seed projects but still utilize bonds, tax revenues, and corporate contributions to get things done while tapping the resource only when other source fail and the end goal is still worth pursuing. Oh and policing potential corruption like a hawk.What is the "prudent cushion" you envision? Given the size of our budget, I would consider ~100mil prudent.
This is a good question and i would say it should go proposal by proposal and dole out money carefully with oversight but here are a few thing i see as worthy causes to consider...What are the major issues you see immediately solvable with money now?
-fixing trash pick up services?
-working on a housing solutions for homeless?
-implementing fare free transit within the city?
-investing in immigration?
I don't like throwing money after crime prevention because i think St. Louis is already above the threshold where each new dollar to policing returns more than that dollars worth of economic output. Still i would open to hear what might be suggested around this.
Fair enough, i can get a little melodramatic when on an internet soap box. My view is I think we shouldn't limit ourselves to 2. We should see how many investments will pay future dividends with immediate investment and implement the best of them NOW. Now its fair to say if you make 20 investment it might lower the impact of each one because the system can't absorb that many. SURE. Doing a street scape invest in Kingsway West might seem like social justice but its also probably a poor investment unless it is reinforcing development occurring there organically. This is also prudence which i agree with.My endowment suggestion is not derived from fear. I consider city government like I would a flooring project at home. There is going to be 5-15% waste that is unavoidable. My suggestion was based on the idea we could earn interest / return and use that money for the foreseeable future to pave streets, fix sidewalk, improve lighting, street diets and ped friendly improvements. Imagine if we could do 2 7th St streetscape style improvement projects a year (obviously I'm not suggesting only for DT, but throughout the city), while maintaining a financial cushion for the next two decades.
My analogy is this money is paper that can be burned to keep people warm. You could lay it all on the ground and burn it up right away or you can put it taking out one piece at a time to burn but overtime much of it will get eaten by moths, or you can use it as kindling to light a bigger fire.
- 1,607
To your surplus GFOA assessment I'm not sure we can call the 44mil unspent a true surplus (paper surplus) as its money we want to spend (police, refuse & streets staffing, un-realized projects) and will likely HAVE to spend more for proper recruitment / completion (inflation). And with a potential for Recession, you can't always expect to hit better than projected tax revenue. We actually already have monies allocated for a couple of your major issues out of the gate (crime, trash). Some of the others listed can't be solved with either 12 or 100 million, though I would welcome more tiny houses and immigrant assistance programs, not sure that needs to come from this bucket. The issue with homelessness and so many not willing to submit to requirements for housing is a major issue, and a major reason why I loathe Larry Rice's past and current efforts, as his low (non-existent?) bar for over night accommodations undercut the other programs in the area.STLEnginerd wrote: ↑Nov 15, 2023From this threadTheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Nov 15, 2023I am willing to hear this side out but I need to know 2 things and tell you one:dbInSouthCity wrote:In FY23 STL ran a $75.6m budget surplus, w/ $33.7m coming from higher than projected rev & $41.9m from spending less than budgeted. Half goes into capital projects & other half in rainy day fund which is now $128.4m or 22.6% of FY24 budget, well above recommended 16.7% by GFOA
https://t.co/B0AP4XIZmDSO seems to me GFOA recommendation should be the floor. Currently we exceed that by 6% which is millions of dollars in itself. Prudence means using the money to seed projects but still utilize bonds, tax revenues, and corporate contributions to get things done while tapping the resource only when other source fail and the end goal is still worth pursuing. Oh and policing potential corruption like a hawk.What is the "prudent cushion" you envision? Given the size of our budget, I would consider ~100mil prudent.
This is a good question and i would say it should go proposal by proposal and dole out money carefully with oversight but here are a few thing i see as worthy causes to consider...What are the major issues you see immediately solvable with money now?
-fixing trash pick up services?
-working on a housing solutions for homeless?
-implementing fare free transit within the city?
-investing in immigration?
I don't like throwing money after crime prevention because i think St. Louis is already above the threshold where each new dollar to policing returns more than that dollars worth of economic output. Still i would open to hear what might be suggested around this.
Fair enough, i can get a little melodramatic when on an internet soap box. My view is I think we shouldn't limit ourselves to 2. We should see how many investments will pay future dividends with immediate investment and implement the best of them NOW. Now its fair to say if you make 20 investment it might lower the impact of each one because the system can't absorb that many. SURE. Doing a street scape invest in Kingsway West might seem like social justice but its also probably a poor investment unless it is reinforcing development occurring there organically. This is also prudence which i agree with. My analogy is this money is paper that can be burned to keep people warm. You could lay it all on the ground and burn it up right away or you can put it taking out one piece at a time to burn but overtime much of it will get eaten by moths, or you can use it as kindling to light a bigger fire.My endowment suggestion is not derived from fear. I consider city government like I would a flooring project at home. There is going to be 5-15% waste that is unavoidable. My suggestion was based on the idea we could earn interest / return and use that money for the foreseeable future to pave streets, fix sidewalk, improve lighting, street diets and ped friendly improvements. Imagine if we could do 2 7th St streetscape style improvement projects a year (obviously I'm not suggesting only for DT, but throughout the city), while maintaining a financial cushion for the next two decades.
Back on track - I feel this windfall from Mr. Kroenke can turn two tricks for quite some time in aiding / modernizing our infrastructure while offering a substantial safety net. I'm not as bold as others to say "perpetually" but seems like a good use of money for a long time. And I think have a continual source of investment in streetscape improvements and beautification (medians, lot clearance, illegal dumping mitigation, etc) would be a good use.
It is also my opinion that organic development will be much more likely to genesis along rehabbed / updated arterials, so i think a program as I'm pitching could lead to further private or partnership investment in the areas that desperately need it.
This is not how money and investment work, hahahahaSTLEnginerd wrote: ↑Nov 15, 2023My analogy is this money is paper that can be burned to keep people warm. You could lay it all on the ground and burn it up right away or you can put it taking out one piece at a time to burn but overtime much of it will get eaten by moths, or you can use it as kindling to light a bigger fire.