Cherokee "Antique Row"

stellar · PostOct 09, 2006#12006-10-09T15:52+00:00

Cherokee?

Total votes: 26

buy

14(54%)

sell

2(8%)

hold

10(38%)

bastiat · PostOct 09, 2006#22006-10-09T18:08+00:00

It needs to become a destination area. It can attract people from the surrounding neighborhoods and the county as well. People drive all the way to Soulard from West County to go out. Cherokee needs a bar to attract more upscale clientele. Word on the street is that the owner of the Royale Bar on Kingshighway is planning on opening one on Cherokee. There is a law similar to the one in Clayton requiring over 50% of sales to be food which has made it nearly impossible for a bar to open in the area, but I heard that the Royale owner has a way around it.

debaliviere · PostOct 09, 2006#32006-10-09T18:53+00:00

If we're talking just about the Antique Row portion of Cherokee, I'm happy with it as it is. It's truly a destination for antique shopping, and I'm always surprised at how many people who otherwise know little to nothing about the city, know about and visit Antique Row. Clustering businesses of a similar nature (antique shops) gives the area a true identity which draws people from all over.

If we're talking about Cherokee west of Jefferson, that's a whole different ballgame...

alonzo p hawk · PostOct 10, 2006#42006-10-10T04:00+00:00

black bear bakery is on cherokee west of Jefferson.

word on the street is that the top cake and pastry baker from new york may be moving to stl in january to open a cake and pastry bakery on that same stretch. it really seems to be on the move. the architecture is pretty incredible, and very intact. the west side of cherokee seems more big city urban than the antique section. though, lemp brewery is something to behold.

downtown2007 · PostOct 10, 2006#52006-10-10T14:33+00:00

Personally I like the West of Jeff part better. More to offer in terms of mexican restaurants, grocers, bakeries, etc... The diversity creates a big city feel.

stellar · PostOct 10, 2006#62006-10-10T16:21+00:00

Downtown2007 wrote:Personally I like the West of Jeff part better. More to offer in terms of mexican restaurants, grocers, bakeries, etc... The diversity creates a big city feel.

I have to agree. The cool thing about this street is that it doesn't feel like St. Louis. From Lemp to Jefferson could be an eastern city like Boston. From Jefferson to Gravois has really diverse architecture and a lot of potential. Potential is sort of the operative word. There are many vacant store fronts and quite a few of the businesses seem pretty makeshift. But if you could get some decent stores in alongside, and not displace, the mexican shops and restaraunts and drug stores you could really have something there.

Here are some photos from yesterday. The first ones are of Antique Row.

These are from the section west of jefferson:

debaliviere · PostOct 10, 2006#72006-10-10T16:36+00:00

There's so much potential west of Jefferson - amazing. Nice photography!

threeonefour · PostOct 10, 2006#82006-10-10T16:38+00:00

DeBaliviere wrote:If we're talking just about the Antique Row portion of Cherokee, I'm happy with it as it is. It's truly a destination for antique shopping, and I'm always surprised at how many people who otherwise know little to nothing about the city, know about and visit Antique Row. Clustering businesses of a similar nature (antique shops) gives the area a true identity which draws people from all over.

If we're talking about Cherokee west of Jefferson, that's a whole different ballgame...

That's my pretty much my take on this area as well. Antique Row seems to have carved out its own niche east of Jefferson. I think the stretch west of Jefferson has the most potential anyway, and like others here, I'd like to see a focus on beautification and attracting a mix of businesses without crowding out the existing Mexican establishments.

debaliviere · PostOct 10, 2006#92006-10-10T16:53+00:00

I can only imagine that the redevelopment of the Lemp Brewery will have a very positive effect on the area around Antique Row, and it seems like the development in Benton Park is spreading south, so it should be a really solid area in a few years.

Just looked at the pics again - this building is amazing:

threeonefour · PostOct 10, 2006#102006-10-10T16:59+00:00

^ I didn't live in St. Louis when it was open, so my memory is vague, but isn't that the building where JC Penney used to be? I know they operated a store along this stretch of Cherokee Street until the 1980s, but I cannot remember the specific location.

I dig that building- it reminds me somewhat of the late, great Southtown Famous-Barr.

MattnSTL · PostOct 10, 2006#112006-10-10T19:41+00:00

Reminds me of it, but that building on Cherokee is so much nicer. The potential for this area is amazing, and it's still very urban.

debaliviere · PostOct 10, 2006#122006-10-10T19:56+00:00

And fairly well preserved - it's been a while since I've checked out that area, but I don't remember there being all that many vacant lots, right?

tiabstl · PostOct 10, 2006#132006-10-10T20:13+00:00

There are few vacant lots on Cherokee. The only big one that I can think of is at Cherokee & Missouri. The street could use some beautification though.

The area around Cherokee has a wide variety of residents. Rehabbers, long time residents, south side hoosiers, ghetto mamas, hipsters, druggies, young families, Bohemians, imigrants. Pretty colorful. The ingredients are all there. The pot just needs to be scrubbed and cleaned before you start cooking with it.

Crime seems to be a big issue, at least to me. The whole State/Indian street area needs a lot of work. There are still plenty of vacant lots on the side streets that could use some infill, and not that damn community garden type either.

In my opinion, buy and hold/fix up. You'll see a nice payout in a couple years.

stellar · PostOct 10, 2006#142006-10-10T21:51+00:00

DeBaliviere wrote:I can only imagine that the redevelopment of the Lemp Brewery will have a very positive effect on the area around Antique Row, and it seems like the development in Benton Park is spreading south, so it should be a really solid area in a few years.

Just looked at the pics again - this building is amazing:

It's the building that the Casa Loma Ballroom is in.

framer · PostOct 11, 2006#152006-10-11T03:31+00:00

I really like the way Cherokee is developing. Keep the Eastern portion as a quaint antiques destination, and let the Western portion further develop as a bustling Hispanic enclave. The Western half has so much more retail potential, with much larger buildings, etc. I'd like to see more restaraunts open up there, so the area can start to attract Suburban/tourist types. And it should become a mecca for stores selling Hispanic foods, clothing, art, etc. This could really become a colorful, exciting neighborhood.

Also, don't forget the fledgling arts district that has sprouted up further West. They get some pretty good crowds on nights of coordinated opennings.

threeonefour · PostOct 11, 2006#162006-10-11T04:43+00:00

I wonder what the odds would be of converting The Cinderella back into a movie theater (I'm assuming that's what it used to be?). As much as I'd like to rescue The Avalon, this one has much of its original facade intact, and it couldn't be any more complicated to acquire it than The Avalon, whose owner might as well be from another planet...

stellar · PostOct 12, 2006#172006-10-12T16:16+00:00

ThreeOneFour wrote:I wonder what the odds would be of converting The Cinderella back into a movie theater (I'm assuming that's what it used to be?). As much as I'd like to rescue The Avalon, this one has much of its original facade intact, and it couldn't be any more complicated to acquire it than The Avalon, whose owner might as well be from another planet...

There's a building for sale on the NE corner of Jefferson and Cherokee that was the original Wehrenberg theater in stl. I believe there is a placard on the side of the building about it being a nickelodeon. Here's a picture of it below. It's a shame the 2nd floor windows are all boarded up. Can you imagine this building with a facelift? Attractive windows above and all. It would surely change the whole vibe of the corner. I believe they are asking $165,000 for the building.

threeonefour · PostOct 12, 2006#182006-10-12T17:02+00:00

^ Wow. That's a great building with a lot of potential! And the price is right!

I really, really wish I had more money to my name when I see buildings in need of rescue like this.

debaliviere · PostOct 12, 2006#192006-10-12T19:52+00:00

Wow, I really can't picture a movie theater ever being in that building. Very cool!

Jefferson has some amazing and totally under-utilized buildings - pretty much all the way from 44 south until it ends.

the central scrutinizer · PostOct 12, 2006#202006-10-12T20:12+00:00

DeBaliviere wrote:Wow, I really can't picture a movie theater ever being in that building. Very cool!

You're thinking of "movie theater" in it's modern context. From what I understand, it was a nickelodeon, located in the rear of a drug(?) store.

xing · PostOct 12, 2006#212006-10-12T23:51+00:00

This area has a long way to go before its a bustling Latino Enclave, but I would suggest a upscale Mexican Restaurant with Mariachi music. Would you believe the closest, quality, Mariachi band to St Louis is in Indianapolis? I know of family and friends who pull that band from Indiana, to perform for weddings and family functions.

Also, re-opening that theater to play foreign and indy films would be a great idea. Plus, a cultural museum, new streetscape, and parks, streets, or schools, named in honor of famous Mexicans, help keep the immigrants in the neighborhood, and also helps them feel welcomed.

Overall, I would hope that at some point, Cherokee Street, or some designated area of the neighborhood could have murals painted on eyesores. Let me show you what they have done in Pilsen, Chicago's largest Mexican community.

Part of Mexican culture is vivid use of color in artwork. Mexican immigrants through-out the US have added so much color to neighborhoods that were once sleepy and drab.

Anyway, I know this area is known for being St Louis' famous antique district. I know I added a bit too much on how to make it attractive for our Mexican immigrants, so I would say a nice balance of the two would be best, in my opinion. That's certainly not impossible.

bastiat · PostOct 13, 2006#222006-10-13T14:58+00:00

Plus, a cultural museum, new streetscape, and parks, streets, or schools, named in honor of famous Mexicans, help keep the immigrants in the neighborhood, and also helps them feel welcomed.

Cheech & Chong Community Garden

Horatio Sanz Elementary

.......?

I'm being a little tongue-in-cheek, but there aren't really any famous Mexicans that merit the honor of changing the existing names (did the changing of Easton to MLK improve the neighborhood?). I'm also a little skeptical of just handing over the entire neighborhood to the immigrants just because they opened a few (very good) restaurants. I saw more blacks and whites on the street the times I've been down there (which I admit isn't often) than Mexicans. There are other people in the neighborhood and we shouldn't favor one group over another. If Mexicans want to paint murals on their own buildings, etc I'm all for it, but other than improved streetscape, the city does not need to expand its budget anymore.

doug · PostOct 13, 2006#232006-10-13T15:19+00:00

That list which you cite contains many famous Mexicans!

Handing over the neighborhood? Do we own it? If they wish to establish their own cultural enclave I am definitely happy for them. Your message belongs in the 1800's as the Irish, Italian, and Germans came to St. Louis.

Look at what they have done for our cultural identity and rethink your position.

bastiat · PostOct 13, 2006#242006-10-13T20:14+00:00

Doug wrote:That list which you cite contains many famous Mexicans!

Handing over the neighborhood? Do we own it? If they wish to establish their own cultural enclave I am definitely happy for them. Your message belongs in the 1800's as the Irish, Italian, and Germans came to St. Louis.

Look at what they have done for our cultural identity and rethink your position.

Yeah, but still, really no one of note. Match those people against others in their field and I doubt more than ten are within the top 20. Should we rename a school Guadalupe Loaeza High School? I don't think whoever that is, deserves that merit. Maybe a Diego Rivera Center for Arts or Cesar Chavez Boxing School, but the city changing the names of existing streets and schools would be political correctness run amok.

I am all for them establishing their own cultural enclave, so long as it they do it with private funds and effort. I'm no expert on St. Louis immigration history, but I seriously doubt the city was making efforts to change street names and the names of schools to attract more to the city. They built their own schools and neighborhoods. I'm willing to bet money that there was no city funding earmarked for an Irish Cultural Center in the 1840s (they built their own bars

).

Renaming Easton as MLK boulevard didn't exactly "help keep blacks in that neighborhood". The strip is largely vacant or heading that way. It also scares away potential investment because it designates a street for a certain group. The letters "MLK" are a great hinderance to anyone who wants to open anything other than a store catering exclusively to blacks on that street. MLK says "this street is for blacks only".

I think diversity is great for the city, but I like the organic kind. Let's not have designated ghettos for certain groups. Let's let the individuals decide where they want to live.

stellar · PostDec 05, 2006#252006-12-05T22:56+00:00

In the 50 most powerful people issue of St. Louis Magazine Steven Smith of The Royale was listed at #49 and it said he was going to do something on Cherokee next. Anybody have any idea what his plans are? What area of Cherokee he plans to work on?