Higher crime and a little more rundown section of south city. Also currently experiencing prostitution issues.
However I think the area has a lot of potential and is ripe for redevelopment. Steins, So Broadway, Ivory Triangle, and Michigan have good bones that can see development. Also recent additions like Feraros, Stacked, and Perennial are making a difference.
downtown2007 wrote:Higher crime and a little more rundown section of south city. Also currently experiencing prostitution issues.
However I think the area has a lot of potential and is ripe for redevelopment. Steins, So Broadway, Ivory Triangle, and Michigan have good bones that can see development. Also recent additions like Feraros, Stacked, and Perennial are making a difference.
Those problems are "up the hill" and not in what most people consider Carondelet. Yes they're technically in the Carondelet neighborhood: but that's in the very small section of the neighborhood that's on the west side of I55 and north of Bates that transitions into the Mount Pleasant and Dutchtown neighborhoods. That's where the higher crime and prostitution is occurring.
We looked at a number of houses in the Carondelet area between 55 and the river plus the Patch area. Almost pulled the trigger. Didn't have a problem with the area as I did my research. First I stopped into the firehouse on Virginia that services the area. The firemen I talked to all seemed honest. They said their section of Carondelet was quiet and their only activity was from the retirement home and older people living alone having health issues/passing away or to help out in other more active areas. I also went into a few of the bars in the area (Red's Bar, Pooh's Corner) and talked to some people. They also said everything was pretty quiet and said all the bad stuff was on the other side of 55. Their only issues was with the gay/down-low pickups going on at Sister Marie Charles park and drug dealing at Bellerive park.
I think that if we were Portland or Austin, the hipsters would be having fights over places and Carondalet/Patch would be very popular.
I'm not saying the Carondalet/Patch area is a lock to take off: but this could be the right time to get in.
Right before we moved out of town 2 years ago we drove down to Perennial on a Friday afternoon from our place in TGS. At some point along the drive I felt like suddenly I was in another place. I had never been down to the Triangle before. There were a few restaurants and bars with people sitting out on the curb, very quiet and a great neighborhood-y feel like no one else from the city ever bothers them. Now that we're moving back in a few weeks, getting back to Perennial will be on the list of things to check in on.
I just wandered through this area tonight. There was some sort of outdoor concert going on at the park on South Broadway near the Public Market.
It was one of those great St. Louis summer evenings, warm but not too hot yet. Lots of people sitting outside on their stoops or lawn chairs.
The whole area had that classic south side vibe going on. I really liked it. If I weren't so dependent on Highway 40 to get to work I'd definitely be looking to hang my hat in Carondelet/Patch
Thank you. I've been wondering about that. Did I say all you could see from my porch was my neighbor's porch? Maybe I can see one or two houses further away than that. Anyway . . . yes, this is a neat project. Figured it was something at least a little like that, but I've not managed to see the owners yet. (I do live a few houses away. And I'm not as much of a busybody as I should be, maybe.)
^ unfortunate. it was a nice space, though i can see the patch not being a great market for it. at least their location on Shenandoah is still around... i think?
Strongly considering a move to Patch. I found a space my partner and I really like. We visited last weekend and walked around the nieghborhood to get a feel. We liked its integrated feel and there were a fair number of rehabs underway. Our walk also revealed some of the grit we expected - some loitering and drinking near Carondalet Lions Park.
Before making the jump, I'd love to hear some thoughts of any posters that live in the Carondalet-Patch neighborhood have to say.
Edit: The loitering and drinking were around St. Louis Square Park, not Carondalet Lions Park
I'm in the "new" Carondelet on the north side of the park and I've been pretty happy here. It's a little different than the historic old Carondelet, of course. And it's not without its problems. But overall, I'd say it's been a very good value. There's a lot of convenience and more walkability than you would expect. I expect the older historic "patch" area is, if anything, even better in that regard. There's good food to be had here and even more in nearby neighborhoods that are only a very short drive away. It's been on the edge of taking off for a few years now. I think the bones are there. I saw part of the Steins Street Row is up for sale. That'd be a heck of a house to move into. Some others down there as well, and even one sort of near me. (It's been a while since anything was for sale long enough to actually hit the market proper.) Anyway, good luck! If you choose to move down this way drop me a line. We can hit Stacked for a burger or Cecil Whitaker's for a pie. Or maybe even Perennial Artisan.
I saw the Steins Row as well. I envy the lucky folks that will snatch that beauty up. It funny you mention Perennial because that's actually the location we are considering. I'll shoot a PM when/if the deal is done! Thanks, Symphonic!
^ One of my best friends lives in a house on Davis Street literally across the street from Perennial. I’m down there quite a bit. Im also hunting for a house, though that’s a bit far south for me (job wise) but my buddies love it down there. Great value, and like SP said, plenty nearby to do.
^ Good question, though I have to ask, are change whistles still a thing? I spend a lot of time in industrial and distribution plants for my job and usually that stuff is digital now. Just a little wall mounted digital time clock or something like that.
Either way, I've never noticed anything in my visits down there...but I can ask him. They've been down on Davis for at least 3 or 4 years now. Maybe longer.
^Yeah, there's some industry noise. I don't find it intolerable, but that will depend on your level of sensitivity. There is indeed a shift change whistle at seven most mornings. I usually sleep through it, but when I catch it I actually think it's kind of pretty. You'll also hear trains from time to time coming off the UP's Iron Mountain line one way or the other. You'll hear jets flying into Lambert or even occasionally Cahokia. And you'll hear stupid kids doing stupid things sometimes: racing motorcycles or worse. Lots of fireworks too. Most of it doesn't bother me and . . . I like trains and planes, so there is that. (Automobiles too, though I would love to see the illegal street racing that so plagues the region moved onto a closed course and away from traffic.)
Honestly, I think a lot of the same noise is to be had literally anywhere in town until you get pretty far out into the boonies. We are a major transportation node and all those trains, planes, and highways pass through even some of the fancier suburbs. It's a city. There's noise. Tons of churchbells of a Sunday morning too. (Which is kind of fun, honestly. Feels almost European that way.) But with the windows closed you miss most of it unless you're right by the highway, for instance. I don't think you'd be any closer to any of the major noise sources than I am. (A little closer to the trains, a little further from the highway. Probably about the same to the factory whistle, which I suspect is Southern Metal Processing, but don't quote me on that. That said, they only blow it that one time and it's a fairly pretty whistle. I mean to make a recording one of these days . . . assuming I can wake up in time.)
