urbanSTL

When I went on Friday night from about 6-9 there were lots of families there. However these were not families with strollers and small kids. I saw lots of parents with their kids in the 15-25 range.


I also didn't notice an overwhelming 21-30 age group. My sister (she's 40) went from 9-12 on a saturday night and was dissapointed with how young the croud was. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. It would be nice if BPV catored to the older suburban/exurban/tourist croud increasing the market instead of poaching off the 21-30 crowd already well covered by Wash Ave, Soulard, and LL to some extent.

The FSMW area was a fun place to watch the cardinals play even with it being an away game. The beers were quite steep at $6 a piece however there was no cover charge, I parked for free, and the atmosphere was lively.

I bet the atmosphere for the Blues game will be really fun tonight.

I'll just go to the Grove (or basically anywhere else in the City) if I want to get a beer. Silver Ball Room in Bevo - $2.

^Then BPV is not marketed to you. Great. It takes all kinds. And we want all kinds spending money in the STL (as long as they are law abiding)

Personally I prefer two buck Stag tall boys at Silver Ballroom on most occasions too. Though I will prefer that place a lot more next year when it finally goes smoke free

$2 beers ain't paying the bills at bpv. You're paying for that awesome tv, fellowship with other fans, etc. there is a time and place for both.

southsidepride wrote:^Then BPV is not marketed to you. Great. It takes all kinds. And we want all kinds spending money in the STL (as long as they are law abiding)

Personally I prefer two buck Stag tall boys at Silver Ballroom on most occasions too. Though I will prefer that place a lot more next year when it finally goes smoke free

It's going smoke free? The smoking is half the reason anybody goes there. A formerly popular place by my house went smoke free late last year because of the new owner and now they're almost out of business because that was the only reason people had to go there. If somebody wants to go to a smoke-free pinball bar, there's always Orbit in Maplewood.

Does BPV have any places with indoor smoking? I know dozens of people who would choose a crappy bar somewhere else before/after a game merely for that reason INSTEAD of BPV. Even if it's just one little section, BPV should provide that. I would also like something similar to Silver Ball Room/Orbit. Like an arcade. That would be awesome, especially if it had Dig Dug.

^The smoking ban in bars and restaurants went into effect in STL city and county in 2010. At that time bars whose food receipts were less than 25% of their sales and were under 2000 square feet were allowed to apply for 5 yr. extensions to allow smoking under the condition that they would never admit anyone under 21. They also had to post signage visible from the outside indicating smoking was allowed inside.

In 2015 those exemptions expire

So then we won't have any indoor smoking anywhere at all? Smokers have to go out in the freezing cold to smoke and won't even be allowed a few bars of their own? Those places would be SO busy! Actually, the few that have smoking now already are very busy, and mostly just because of that. Too bad.

Gateway City wrote:So then we won't have any indoor smoking anywhere at all? Smokers have to go out in the freezing cold to smoke and won't even be allowed a few bars of their own? Those places would be SO busy! Actually, the few that have smoking now already are very busy, and mostly just because of that. Too bad.

Non-smoking regulations are good. Very, very good.

Im not a smoker nor do i plan on picking up the habit.I'm rather neutral when it comes to cigarette smells.. There are times i can't stand the smell of cigs specially when i get in my car and turn on the air it just reeks and inhere are times when at bar or over at friends that i like the smell of it i know strange but being honest however I don't think people who smoke should have to be punished for it by banning them from coming into any venue but i do believe it should be every business right to determine whether they want to be smoke free or not...

Gateway City wrote:So then we won't have any indoor smoking anywhere at all?

In The Independent City of St. Louis casinos, cigar lounges, and the Missouri Athletic Club are all exempt. So are semi-private rooms in nursing homes if that's more your scene.

BrickCity4470 wrote:Im not a smoker nor do i plan on picking up the habit.I'm rather neutral when it comes to cigarette smells.. There are times i can't stand the smell of cigs specially when i get in my car and turn on the air it just reeks and inhere are times when at bar or over at friends that i like the smell of it i know strange but being honest however I don't think people who smoke should have to be punished for it by banning them from coming into any venue but i do believe it should be every business right to determine whether they want to be smoke free or not...

Smokers aren't being banned from coming into a venue, they just can't smoke inside the venue. They can go outside and smoke, that way their behaviors aren't punishing the non-smokers that are also there to enjoy the venue.

debaliviere wrote:

Gateway City wrote:So then we won't have any indoor smoking anywhere at all? Smokers have to go out in the freezing cold to smoke and won't even be allowed a few bars of their own? Those places would be SO busy! Actually, the few that have smoking now already are very busy, and mostly just because of that. Too bad.

Non-smoking regulations are good. Very, very good.

Then don't go to bars that have indoor smoking. It should be up to the business owner whether they want it or not. I remember when Uncle Bill's had it, more than two dozen of my friends hung out there because it was the only place in Ballwin that had it besides Steak N Shake. The day they got rid of it, everyone stopped going. I went there a few times after and none of them were ever there again. When I asked any of them about it, they said they had no reason to go there vs. any other restaurant any more. A business smaller and less busy would have probably closed.

Anyway, I know for certain that without at least one bar with indoor smoking, BPV will not be able to compete with the bars that do, because those bars' patrons choose them mostly because they do have indoor smoking. I know I wouldn't pick a bar with $6 beers and no indoor smoking if I can just go to Lumiere and still be allowed to smoke, that is, if I were a smoker like so many other people are. Maybe it will be good for Lumiere, though! I know if I wanted to open a bar right now, though, I would be pissed to find out it can't have smoking.

Gateway City wrote: Anyway, I know for certain that without at least one bar with indoor smoking, BPV will not be able to compete with the bars that do, because those bars' patrons choose them mostly because they do have indoor smoking.

Come, now: are you sure about that? I suppose the question becomes is the fraction of the "smoker" segment of our population that would outright refuse to patronize an establishment where they can't smoke (as opposed to patronizing it and simply smoking outside) large enough to affect the Ballpark Village establishments' ability to compete.

I've been wrong before, but my gut tells me the answer to said question is a resounding "no."

And that doesn't even take into consideration the people like me who purposefully avoid patronizing places where smoking is allowed.

I'm a smoker and I have absolutely no problem heading outside if I want to smoke. I actually avoid going to bars that allow smoking because they just feel gross and I think I may have to burn my clothes to get rid of the smell. It's nice to be able to get away from the noise and bustle of a bar for a few minutes and allows you to have conversations with people you wouldn't otherwise.

Gateway City wrote:Anyway, I know for certain that without at least one bar with indoor smoking, BPV will not be able to compete with the bars that do, because those bars' patrons choose them mostly because they do have indoor smoking.

Well, BPV isn't going to have any competition soon, since all bars in St. Louis City will be smoke free starting in 2015.

I think what we'll start to see is more quasi-outdoor smoking areas/patios, some with space heaters, etc... to make it as convenient as possible. Kind of like this little job at BB Hill:

How about if you're buying tobacco, you have less money to spend on booze. Works out well for bar owners if you're not smoking.

Smoking in bars is a thing if the past. I have friends that smoke that are ok with going outside to smoke and would rather be in a smoke free bar. If BPV had a indoor smoking it would be a regression.

Not if it were only one bar. Besides, spending $4 on a pack is less than a beer at BPV. If I were an owner of a bar, I'd feel bad about making smokers go outside in the freezing cold. I guess we'll see how many of these smoking bars are able to stay in business after next year, but I know dozens of people who pick places like CBGB just because of the smoking. You can get beer at any bar, but for smokers like them, they wanna be able to smoke! Especially when the weather is bad. And if a non-smoker wants a beer, they can go to a non-smoking bar.

Gateway City wrote:Then don't go to bars that have indoor smoking.

Do you remember what it was like before the smoking ban took effect? Smoke-free options were few and far between.

We're getting off topic here but I really wish St. Louis had just gone full non-smoking from the get go instead of allowing these exemptions.

I have an acquaintance who owns a bar in the Westport area of Kansas City. Prior to their outright ban his bar was one of the smokiest dives in the area.

The ban went into effect in 2008. He said business dropped a little, but keep in mind this was also when the economy tanked as well.

Within months he said about 95% of his business returned and he saw some new customers who were perhaps only patronizing non-smoking venues like KC's own BPV--Power and Light District.

Of course he maintained a very positive attitude toward the change--something I think goes a lot further than many realize. If a bar owner is complaining now that his business will nosedive and he'll have to close when the ban goes in place is that someplace you are going to go out of your way to patronize?

If you are like Gateway City's dozens of friends, perhaps so. But not enough people are like that to make a difference in that direction, most likely.

Back on topic, however:

How much of an insane scene will BPV be this Friday night?

1. It's Friday night
2. The Cardinals are finally back in town from their road trip to take on the Pirates in a 2013 playoffs rematch
3. NHL playoffs Blues vs. Blackhawks: Game 5 at the Scottrade Center

So.... I guess I'll see you all there?

I would bet most of those places will be one-in, one-out.

My take on this suddenly off-topic smoking discussion.

As a smoker, I am FOR a full ban in St. Louis bars/restaurants (and would even support a state-wide ban). Really, it isn't an issue AT ALL to step out, walk ten feet and light up. And, as Anglophile said, I've had some of the most interesting conversations/experiences doing exactly that -- leaning up against the wall and talking to random patrons I probably wouldn't have while inside at a table with friends. In the meantime, my admittedly unhealthy habit isn't affecting others and NO ONE is going home reeking of burnt tobacco.

And honestly, I think Missouri missed the boat when voting down a cigarette tax. I'd probably support a tax that brings the cost up to about $8! Living in Chicago (Cook County) right now, a pack is over $11 and really, I'm fine paying it when I need a pack -- it curbs my cigarette smoking significantly.

Bring it back to BPV and Busch Stadium, it would have caused several uproars if the Cardinals had requested an exemption, and likely set the whole process back if approved/considered. I fondly remember walking from my seat at old Busch over to the nearest concourse wall and lighting up, but I definitely do not mind going down to street level, getting stamped and heading outside for half an inning. Ours IS a self-destructive habit that DOES have an effect on those around us. I really don't mind being asked to respect the air-space of fellow patrons and head outside.

Anyone know or have any theories where the Jamba Juice and Ted Drewes will be located within the car park village?