Has anyone used the new Amtrak expanded service between St. Louis and Chicago? Are the trains any more on-time than they used to be (by that I mean within 1 hour of their scheduled departure/arrival time 
)?
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looks like amtrak's missouri funding will be cut almost completely. better use that new megabus.com service to get to kansas city.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... 2amtrak%22
House votes to end Amtrak subsidy
03/29/2007
JEFFERSON CITY — The Missouri House has voted to strip most state funding from Amtrak passenger trains and redirect the money toward public school busing.
Lawmakers removed $6.3 million from the government-supported railroad Tuesday and Wednesday through a series of amendments. Amtrak provides twice-daily train service between Kansas City and St. Louis, with several stops in between.
The cut would stop Amtrak from getting any general state dollars, though a transportation fund still would give the railroad $1.2 million in the fiscal year that begins July 1. Transportation officials say it costs about $7 million a year to run the trains.
Of the money budgeted for Amtrak, House members shifted $5.3 million to help school districts pay for rising busing costs; $640,000 to Lincoln University in Jefferson City; $300,000 for a video project that interviews war veterans; and $100,000 to a health clinic near Springfield.
Supporters of the Amtrak cuts complained that the trains often were late and that the railroad was inefficient.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... 2amtrak%22
House votes to end Amtrak subsidy
03/29/2007
JEFFERSON CITY — The Missouri House has voted to strip most state funding from Amtrak passenger trains and redirect the money toward public school busing.
Lawmakers removed $6.3 million from the government-supported railroad Tuesday and Wednesday through a series of amendments. Amtrak provides twice-daily train service between Kansas City and St. Louis, with several stops in between.
The cut would stop Amtrak from getting any general state dollars, though a transportation fund still would give the railroad $1.2 million in the fiscal year that begins July 1. Transportation officials say it costs about $7 million a year to run the trains.
Of the money budgeted for Amtrak, House members shifted $5.3 million to help school districts pay for rising busing costs; $640,000 to Lincoln University in Jefferson City; $300,000 for a video project that interviews war veterans; and $100,000 to a health clinic near Springfield.
Supporters of the Amtrak cuts complained that the trains often were late and that the railroad was inefficient.
This is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. So much for the expansion of Amtrak to Springfield and Jeff City.
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^ Agreed - $6.3M?! We should be funding it at $63M and studying how we can make it more attractive to StL-KC travellers. I love how Amtrak is rediculously underfunded and then acused of not delivering an exceptional product! It's really amazing that Metrolink is becoming more and more successful w/o a bigger budget.
Grover wrote:I love how Amtrak is rediculously underfunded and then acused of not delivering an exceptional product! It's really amazing that Metrolink is becoming more and more successful w/o a bigger budget.
Exactley what I thought when I read the last line of the article.
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The funny thing is Illinois has been increasing the money it has been spending on Amtrak and ridership is at an all-time high. Service will soon be added to Rockford, a town that hasn't seen Amtrak in over 20 years and the State will pay for a feasiblity study to see if Peoria can support Amtrak. Peoria hasn't had Amtrak since 1982.
Face it. Missouri's transportation is f#$#ed up, and the leaders are making it worse. Fortunately, the city leaders of St Louis and KC are still being aggressive, despite the state's ridiculous decisions.
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what in the hell!?
guess no more trips to herman.
no more transit only kc.
guess no more trips to herman.
no more transit only kc.
this is happening because the Missouri House if full of out-state hicks. Is this Rod Jetton?
Also should be noted, although it looks like Missouri is cutting Amtrak funding, the US Senate is proposes huge Amtrak funding increases, although a matching program in Missouri wouldn't do much if we're spending next to nothing...
http://www.cmt-stl.org/news/story_15.html
The U.S. Senate’s recently announced budget plan includes $1.78 billion for intercity passenger rail, nearly twice the amount proposed by President Bush and even more than Amtrak's own budget request. The amount, announced by Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., is included in the plan being unveiled by Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad, D-N.D. It matches the amount called for in a broad, six-year Amtrak authorization bill introduced in January by Lautenberg and Sen. Trent Lott, R-Miss.
The $1.78 billion includes $100 million in the form of matching grants for states to use to develop rail service on key corridors in their territory and $50 million to pay for upgrades needed to make Amtrak stations compliant with the Americans with Disabilities Act. Amtrak's request, including those two items, totaled $1.68 billion.
Amtrak wants to establish such a program to help states fund their own rail service over frequently traveled routes that currently have no rail connection or limited service. Already, 14 states – including Missouri and Illinois -- pay Amtrak for service, but supporters of a matching program say many more would seek to expand service if federal support was available.
“A matching program would potentially help solve the ongoing problems with track maintenance on the Union Pacific line between St. Louis and Kansas City,” said Thomas R. Shrout, Jr., executive director. “There is a dire need for an increase in capacity to accommodate UP’s freight traffic that often prohibits Amtrak from running on time, much less allow for increased frequencies that have been so successful in Illinois.”
President Bush is also a supporter of the idea. His budget proposal also calls for $100 million for state matching grants, though it would pare Amtrak's direct subsidy down to $800 million. Amtrak is getting $1.3 billion for the current fiscal year. The railroad's funding prospects are considered better now that Democrats control Congress.
http://www.cmt-stl.org/news/story_15.html
The U.S. Senate’s recently announced budget plan includes $1.78 billion for intercity passenger rail, nearly twice the amount proposed by President Bush and even more than Amtrak's own budget request. The amount, announced by Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., is included in the plan being unveiled by Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad, D-N.D. It matches the amount called for in a broad, six-year Amtrak authorization bill introduced in January by Lautenberg and Sen. Trent Lott, R-Miss.
The $1.78 billion includes $100 million in the form of matching grants for states to use to develop rail service on key corridors in their territory and $50 million to pay for upgrades needed to make Amtrak stations compliant with the Americans with Disabilities Act. Amtrak's request, including those two items, totaled $1.68 billion.
Amtrak wants to establish such a program to help states fund their own rail service over frequently traveled routes that currently have no rail connection or limited service. Already, 14 states – including Missouri and Illinois -- pay Amtrak for service, but supporters of a matching program say many more would seek to expand service if federal support was available.
“A matching program would potentially help solve the ongoing problems with track maintenance on the Union Pacific line between St. Louis and Kansas City,” said Thomas R. Shrout, Jr., executive director. “There is a dire need for an increase in capacity to accommodate UP’s freight traffic that often prohibits Amtrak from running on time, much less allow for increased frequencies that have been so successful in Illinois.”
President Bush is also a supporter of the idea. His budget proposal also calls for $100 million for state matching grants, though it would pare Amtrak's direct subsidy down to $800 million. Amtrak is getting $1.3 billion for the current fiscal year. The railroad's funding prospects are considered better now that Democrats control Congress.
Missouri just doesn't get it. Instead of funding programs that increase the livibility of the state, they cut them. I think we should invest in high speed rail, but I can see that idea won't go very far with our losers in office.
High Speed Rail? Who needs a high speed rail when I can drive my 85 ford pick-up down to the Walmart and get everything I could possibly need and more?
I think Trent was referring to intercity high speed rail (not local rail, i.e. metrolink/subways). It's becoming very popular in Asia and Europe-just today one of the biggest news stories was France breaking the rail record for traditional rail at about 350 miles per hour. Imagine getting to Chicago in under an hour. While Im sure normal trains wouldnt travel this fast, the bullet trains of asia/europe do travel over 150-190 mph. So Chicago/Memphis/KC/Louisville etc would be under 2 hrs city center to city center and without having to deal with the BS of flying.
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Imagine getting to Chicago in under an hour.
You can already - it's called Southwest airlines.
High speed rail won't catch on here because even though it's more convenient than flying, the cost to implement the infrastructure would be astronomical, and the cost for passengers is too expensive. I've used the acela example before. Maybe the price has come down a bit, but when I almost took it, it cost more than the delta shuttle from Boston to NY and took longer. Who would pay more to take longer to get to Chicago or KC? No one.
The only way high speed rail becomes a reality is if the federal government builds the infrastructure like they did the interstate highway system. Of course, that would require people to have their taxes go to rails and not roads - an extremely politically unfavorable situation.
Disclaimer: The above statement does not include driving to the airport, being frisked and treated like a criminal, waiting to depart, unforseen delays, turbulence, changes in air pressure, waiting for your luggage, or getting from the airport to your destination.migueltejada wrote:Imagine getting to Chicago in under an hour.
You can already - it's called Southwest airlines.
The quickest time a high speed train between St. Louis and Chicago could ever travel is likely just over 2 hours. A more reasonable fast estimate would around 2:45.
TGV example: Paris to Tours - ~140 miles in 62 minutes, if I remember correctly
France is about to open a new TGV line, TGV Est, in June between Paris and Strasbourg. The line is 186 miles in length, built for a future service speed of 217 mph, and will be traversed in under an hour. The cost to construct the line is $5+ billion which translates to around $28 million/mile of new super high speed track. If you were to do a maximum build between St. Louis and Chicago, around 220 miles of super high speed track and other improvements, my guess is that the final cost would be around $6 billion.
Amtrak is nice.. but if you are going to build rails... do it where the airlines can't compete... expand Metro link. If you can't compete with planes for time... beat them on service, comfort and style. Using existing rails, smart business choices and negotiating with existing Train Companies (Norfolk, UP etc) to get decent routes/times - some dignity can be brought back to Passenger Rail in America. France/Europe has a rail mentality -- the US (especially the Midwest) doesn't... let’s not pretend like we do.
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I think that High Speed Rail is really cool, but it just wouldnt work here because everything is so much bigger here (distances) than in Europe. The only place I could see this working would be in the Northeast. A high speed train from NYC to Philly could work and it could even go to DC. But I agree, any rail construction around here should be devoted to Metro.
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I took the Inter-City Express (high speed rail)from Berlin to Frankfort. That trip took over two hours and I've taken the other trains which took much longer.
I'd say in Germany, at least, it is very comparable to the midwest as far as empty land b/w cities. Now they don't have the sprawl issue either so although the cities are larger than ours they are much more compact. There is enough population in the midwest to support a regional high speed rail.
I'd say in Germany, at least, it is very comparable to the midwest as far as empty land b/w cities. Now they don't have the sprawl issue either so although the cities are larger than ours they are much more compact. There is enough population in the midwest to support a regional high speed rail.
I've always felt that traveling by rail was much more comfortable and convenient than travelling by plane. But then again, I've never been one to hate travelling (not going places, everybody likes that, but the actual act of travel). I enjoy all methods of travel really. But rail is just so easy to deal with. I wish I had more reasons to take a train.
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Last week my family took Amtrak to Chicago for a 4 day spring break. We were on the Texas Eagle Superliner going up Thursday and the Ann Rutledge Business Class coming home Sunday.
The Train arrived in St. Louis from San Antonio about 1 1/2 hours late, and arrived in Chicago 2 1/4 hours late. But we were on vacation and were just planning on going to the hotel and eating when we got there anyway so we didn't care about the delay.
It is so relaxing to take the train vs. flying or driving for 5 hours. I took my computer and cell card and surfed the web. Of course you can use your cell phone on a train. The Texas Eagle has double deck cars, with a lounge car and a dining car. I believe there were sleeper cars also for people coming from Texas. Aftter getting our seats and heading out, we probably spend 1/3 of our time in the lounge car. They had a snack store on the lower level of the lounge car, and they had a dining car, where we were lucky to get squeezed in for lunch , even though first class passengers have priority.
The staff was maybe not as slick as airline employees, and they were kind of understaffed. Buy they did their work efficiently, and then took some time afterward to talk to us and ask what we were planning to do in Chicago, etc. -- very personable and friendly. We had time to walk around the train a lot, which made the trip a lot easier than being stuffed in an airline seat, and you could actually talk to other passengers in the lounge area and get to know a few in the 5 hous you spent together.
The superliner was clean although the windows are always a little more cloudy or tinted than it seems like they need to be for a good view. The lounge car had roof windows and seats that faced out to see the view. There were also booths there where people could eat or play cards.
The trip back from Chicago was very nice in business class and well worth the $14 extra or so. The snack bar was in the middlle ouf our business class car and had beer, coke, chips, and bagged food and sandwiches they could nuke for you. The car was almost new, and spotless. There was lots of leg room and regular power plugs for your computer. They gave us a free Sunday Chicago Tribune and a free soft drink.
As we came into St. Lous Sunday at abou 4 PM, Opening Day Cardi Gras was in full swing around the stadium with lots of fans waving as we wound through the parking area. One guy ran along side the train and gave our conductor a high-five as he stood in the car door approaching the station.
So my family rated Amtrak a fun and enjoyable experience. We did stop a couple of times on the track for some reason -- once for 45 minutes to let an inspection crew get out of the way. You would think that if they do this everyday, it would be a little more routine, but I understand freight has priority over people on these tracks that Amtrak borrows, curiously.
I just read in the paper today about the train in Europe that hit 350 MPH. In Europe they are putting in a lot more high speed trains to compete with low cost airlines. Could you imagine 2 hours to downtown Chicago? You could easily go up one morning, shop on the Magnificent Mile, and return that evening. It takes at least 4 hours to do the same trip by airplane after you arrive early for airline security and then add the time it takes to get from the airport to downtown. It would take government subsidy, but is more green (assuming electric trains like Europe) and airlines are heavily subsidized now with FAA, airport taxes, etc.
Amtrak should consider doing like the cruise ships, and transitioning some transportation trains to luxury cruise trains that make the train the destination. They aren't that far off.
I rate the experience cool.
The Train arrived in St. Louis from San Antonio about 1 1/2 hours late, and arrived in Chicago 2 1/4 hours late. But we were on vacation and were just planning on going to the hotel and eating when we got there anyway so we didn't care about the delay.
It is so relaxing to take the train vs. flying or driving for 5 hours. I took my computer and cell card and surfed the web. Of course you can use your cell phone on a train. The Texas Eagle has double deck cars, with a lounge car and a dining car. I believe there were sleeper cars also for people coming from Texas. Aftter getting our seats and heading out, we probably spend 1/3 of our time in the lounge car. They had a snack store on the lower level of the lounge car, and they had a dining car, where we were lucky to get squeezed in for lunch , even though first class passengers have priority.
The staff was maybe not as slick as airline employees, and they were kind of understaffed. Buy they did their work efficiently, and then took some time afterward to talk to us and ask what we were planning to do in Chicago, etc. -- very personable and friendly. We had time to walk around the train a lot, which made the trip a lot easier than being stuffed in an airline seat, and you could actually talk to other passengers in the lounge area and get to know a few in the 5 hous you spent together.
The superliner was clean although the windows are always a little more cloudy or tinted than it seems like they need to be for a good view. The lounge car had roof windows and seats that faced out to see the view. There were also booths there where people could eat or play cards.
The trip back from Chicago was very nice in business class and well worth the $14 extra or so. The snack bar was in the middlle ouf our business class car and had beer, coke, chips, and bagged food and sandwiches they could nuke for you. The car was almost new, and spotless. There was lots of leg room and regular power plugs for your computer. They gave us a free Sunday Chicago Tribune and a free soft drink.
As we came into St. Lous Sunday at abou 4 PM, Opening Day Cardi Gras was in full swing around the stadium with lots of fans waving as we wound through the parking area. One guy ran along side the train and gave our conductor a high-five as he stood in the car door approaching the station.
So my family rated Amtrak a fun and enjoyable experience. We did stop a couple of times on the track for some reason -- once for 45 minutes to let an inspection crew get out of the way. You would think that if they do this everyday, it would be a little more routine, but I understand freight has priority over people on these tracks that Amtrak borrows, curiously.
I just read in the paper today about the train in Europe that hit 350 MPH. In Europe they are putting in a lot more high speed trains to compete with low cost airlines. Could you imagine 2 hours to downtown Chicago? You could easily go up one morning, shop on the Magnificent Mile, and return that evening. It takes at least 4 hours to do the same trip by airplane after you arrive early for airline security and then add the time it takes to get from the airport to downtown. It would take government subsidy, but is more green (assuming electric trains like Europe) and airlines are heavily subsidized now with FAA, airport taxes, etc.
Amtrak should consider doing like the cruise ships, and transitioning some transportation trains to luxury cruise trains that make the train the destination. They aren't that far off.
I rate the experience cool.
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i like you gary. it's really good when you are traveling across the country. i took it from st louis to new york and back when i moved there for a year. all i had were two suitcases. the texas eagle arrived in st louis ON TIME!!!!! and got to chicago EARLY!!!!!! i wonder how many people on here can say that? but to sween the deal, the laskshore limited got to penn station just 1/2 late. not too shabby. a word of warning to thoes that are taking a long distance trip on amtrak, pay the few extra $$ to get a sleeper car. you won't sit next to weirdos like i did, but you will sleep. on the way back to chicago there was a guy that took his shoes off at night and the whole car stunk so bad all night.
gary as you were reading about the french breaking the rail speed record, i was on the train as the madrid rail bombings were happening. kind of weird.
gary as you were reading about the french breaking the rail speed record, i was on the train as the madrid rail bombings were happening. kind of weird.
Gary Kreie wrote:I just read in the paper today about the train in Europe that hit 350 MPH. In Europe they are putting in a lot more high speed trains to compete with low cost airlines. Could you imagine 2 hours to downtown Chicago? You could easily go up one morning, shop on the Magnificent Mile, and return that evening. It takes at least 4 hours to do the same trip by airplane after you arrive early for airline security and then add the time it takes to get from the airport to downtown. It would take government subsidy, but is more green (assuming electric trains like Europe) and airlines are heavily subsidized now with FAA, airport taxes, etc.
We may never see the entire U.S. connected by high speed rail, but it does make sense regionally. The STL-Chicago line would be an obvious one. The Northeast is pretty well connected already, and California is exploring a high-speed line from Sacramento to San Diego via the central valley with stops in San Fran and LA. St. Louis's location would make it an interesting hub of a midwestern system, although it would have to overcome the perception of Chicago as the obvious choice.
Thanks for sharing your story Gary. One thing I like about train travel is actually seeing the landscape of different regions and getting a sense of how far you've travelled, as opposed to going up into the sky over one metro area and coming down smack dab in the middle of another.
The problem is that the train region would probably more center around Chicago... I imagine several regions... Northeast, Southeast/South, Upper Midwest, and California/West Coast. Northeast and West were mentioned... Upper Midwest would include the hub in Chicago, Detroit, Twin Cities, St. Louis, Indy, the Ohio cities, Pittsburgh maybe KC.... The southern region would probably be a hub in ATL, Gulf Coast/NO, Memphis, Nashville, east Texas cities. Our best bet at being a “hub” would be a connection point between the southern lines and Chicago centered lines.
I would be psyched if:
1) to get any new development in this country as far as massive federal dollars to build an entire new rail infrastructure and
2) the system were to include STL (as opposed to just the coasts and Chicago) ... I will not be greedy and say "STL should be the hub for the center of the country.”
There I go wishful thinking again... we all know statement #1 will not happen for a long time (if gas gets to $10/gal people will probably push for electric trains… but it wont happen until gas is like $15 a gallon).
I would be psyched if:
1) to get any new development in this country as far as massive federal dollars to build an entire new rail infrastructure and
2) the system were to include STL (as opposed to just the coasts and Chicago) ... I will not be greedy and say "STL should be the hub for the center of the country.”
There I go wishful thinking again... we all know statement #1 will not happen for a long time (if gas gets to $10/gal people will probably push for electric trains… but it wont happen until gas is like $15 a gallon).