Rumor I've heard about that parcel is the music people are interested in creating a "Northerly Isle" type outdoor music venue.
- 307
- 2,386
I tried to catch up on all posts in the thread, so I apologize if this has been stated already:
Most analysts, et al. agree that Amazon's biggest competitor currently, and down the line, will be Walmart. This is in the grocery space (whole foods) as well as web-based discount goods. Virtually everything both companies do at this point (in the consumer goods space, obviously Walmart does not compete in the same arenas as AWS) appears at least on the surface to be in response to each other.
Walmart is located in Bentonville, AR. Keep your enemies closer? I think this might be an under-reported aspect of this decision. If Amazon wanted to "keep an eye on them" etc. StL would seem a solid location from this perspective.
Most analysts, et al. agree that Amazon's biggest competitor currently, and down the line, will be Walmart. This is in the grocery space (whole foods) as well as web-based discount goods. Virtually everything both companies do at this point (in the consumer goods space, obviously Walmart does not compete in the same arenas as AWS) appears at least on the surface to be in response to each other.
Walmart is located in Bentonville, AR. Keep your enemies closer? I think this might be an under-reported aspect of this decision. If Amazon wanted to "keep an eye on them" etc. StL would seem a solid location from this perspective.
- 597
newstl2020 wrote: ↑Sep 11, 2017I tried to catch up on all posts in the thread, so I apologize if this has been stated already:
Most analysts, et al. agree that Amazon's biggest competitor currently, and down the line, will be Walmart. This is in the grocery space (whole foods) as well as web-based discount goods. Virtually everything both companies do at this point (in the consumer goods space, obviously Walmart does not compete in the same arenas as AWS) appears at least on the surface to be in response to each other.
Walmart is located in Bentonville, AR. Keep your enemies closer? I think this might be an under-reported aspect of this decision. If Amazon wanted to "keep an eye on them" etc. StL would seem a solid location from this perspective.
Yeah I was actually curious about this myself too, it's a global economy so it's hard to imagine what competitive edge would be gained in a St. Louis location in that regard. Honestly, I'm pulling for St. Louis, in part, out of vengeance against Kroenke. I think St. Louis is a good location to strike in the heart of Walmart's territory. How quickly could Amazon drive Walmart stores out of Missouri and Southern Illinois? Both top 10 states numbering in Walmart locations.9ine Runner wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2017Would choosing to relocate to St. Louis (or the midwest) offer any strategic role in Amazon continuing to take the fight to Walmart, HQ'd in Bentonville, AR?
Why the hell would the Post Dispatch publish this. "Amazon probably won't pick St. Louis..."
I feel this is a total turn off. No confidence. Lists reasons why we CANT be a city in the running.
I feel this is a total turn off. No confidence. Lists reasons why we CANT be a city in the running.
- 2,386
My biggest thought was talent acquisition (hiring away Walmart employees as an offensive move.) Much easier to move your family from Bentonville to StL than say, Boston. However, I do have limited knowledge as to what employees in what verticals Walmart employs in Bentonville vs. elsewhere. I would think with Bentonville being the HQ that they would employ a large number of high value staff there.9ine Runner wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2017Yeah I was actually curious about this myself too, it's a global economy so it's hard to imagine what competitive edge would be gained in a St. Louis location in that regard. Honestly, I'm pulling for St. Louis, in part, out of vengeance against Kroenke. I think St. Louis is a good location to strike in the heart of Walmart's territory. How quickly could Amazon drive Walmart stores out of Missouri and Southern Illinois? Both top 10 states numbering in Walmart locations.9ine Runner wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2017Would choosing to relocate to St. Louis (or the midwest) offer any strategic role in Amazon continuing to take the fight to Walmart, HQ'd in Bentonville, AR?
Your second point is also a good one. Bezos does seem to enjoy victories and this would certainly be a large hit against a major competitor if Amazon were able to pull it off.
- 1,054
I really did not appreciate that headline. There are much better ways to phrase it. "Amazon may be a long shot, but here's what St. Louis can learn from trying." is much more fitting to the actual substance of the article.
It annoyed me nonetheless.
- 2,386
Absolutely. The PD is largely clickbait for a heavily suburban audience. The entire metro should be rooting for something such as this, but sadly it appears as though the PD is too heavily rooted in their crime/fail/hopelessness of the city pandering to the suburban crowd to see an editorial difference. They have a few pillars holding up actual reporting, but in large part it seems as though you have to dig past the layers of crap tailored for Eureka before you can get there.Chalupas54 wrote: ↑Sep 12, 2017I really did not appreciate that headline. There are much better ways to phrase it. "Amazon may be a long shot, but here's what St. Louis can learn from trying." is much more fitting to the actual substance of the article.
It annoyed me nonetheless.
Edit: Should probably keep this on topic and not about PD bashing, sorry. Also my post was in reference to tailored headlines, the author's work in general does not *typically* fall into that category in my experience.
The PD loves to go negative and as someone else said it's just clickbait.
With respect to the STL proposal and our perceived weaknesses as a city, we should try a Rovian Tactic to change that perception. I despise the man but respect the effectiveness of this method: take a negative and turn it into a positive for yourself and attack your opponent at the same time.
We can likely say one of our weaknesses compared to several larger competitors will be a smaller workforce so we should try and turn that into a positive for us in some manner. Make the argument that we have plenty of affordable housing stock and transport infrastructure ready to support a rapidly expanding workforce while a larger city may not have that luxury. Compare commuting statistics and highlight the ease with which we have it here compared to larger cities.
Make it seem as if they could slide right in and not have any growth pains.
With respect to the STL proposal and our perceived weaknesses as a city, we should try a Rovian Tactic to change that perception. I despise the man but respect the effectiveness of this method: take a negative and turn it into a positive for yourself and attack your opponent at the same time.
We can likely say one of our weaknesses compared to several larger competitors will be a smaller workforce so we should try and turn that into a positive for us in some manner. Make the argument that we have plenty of affordable housing stock and transport infrastructure ready to support a rapidly expanding workforce while a larger city may not have that luxury. Compare commuting statistics and highlight the ease with which we have it here compared to larger cities.
Make it seem as if they could slide right in and not have any growth pains.
This was my thought as well. That, and it feels directionless.KevinAdams wrote: ↑Sep 11, 2017A couple might be okay. It is wise to narrow down the list before presenting it to Amazon as too many options may not be perceived well. It would seem like there is infighting, or at least a lack of unity, within the region.
It's like lying on your resume, and then when you get the phone interview, you have no idea what you're talking about because you didn't bother to read the job description. And that probably pisses the hiring manager off.
By the end of the STLPR interview from above, Otis Williams actually said they'll come together behind one site, and Sheila Sweeney concurred. So maybe they will have it completely narrowed down by the time they submit.
Thanks. I'll have to give it a listen; haven't had the time to sit down and hear the whole thing.
Here's my two cents, and being a visual designer I had to make pictures.
There's a lot of good potential sites and feel strongly about Moorlander's idea of downtown south/Chouteau's Greenway.
I feel Cortex is strong for the obvious reasons. And since I'm the King of my Imaginary Fantasies, it's easy to gobble up land regardless of current ownership/utilization. Half of the property below is part of Cortex/Koman. The other, as you head south of 64, is a patchwork of properties, that pooled together, could be impressive.
This hits on all the points—highway, Metrolink, talent-pool, close to Universities, housing (yes, I added CityTarget for grins) and believe a chance like this is exactly why Cortex was created in the first place.
![]()
![]()
There's a lot of good potential sites and feel strongly about Moorlander's idea of downtown south/Chouteau's Greenway.
I feel Cortex is strong for the obvious reasons. And since I'm the King of my Imaginary Fantasies, it's easy to gobble up land regardless of current ownership/utilization. Half of the property below is part of Cortex/Koman. The other, as you head south of 64, is a patchwork of properties, that pooled together, could be impressive.
This hits on all the points—highway, Metrolink, talent-pool, close to Universities, housing (yes, I added CityTarget for grins) and believe a chance like this is exactly why Cortex was created in the first place.
thanks!
Forgot to mention—the magenta square at the SW intersection of Clayton and Sarah is the footprint of the ATT Tower downtown.
Forgot to mention—the magenta square at the SW intersection of Clayton and Sarah is the footprint of the ATT Tower downtown.
- 8,924
Regarding location
This BJ article quotes Stanger saying:
This BJ article quotes Stanger saying:![]()
From the BJ Article:
Wash U + 4 other top 200 colleges. Strong community colleges
Possible Status as "Right to Work"
Plenty of fiber connectivity
Cheap available land
Transit
This BJ article quotes Stanger saying:
Regarding Talent PoolThe St. Louis group said it has identified a dozen initial sites for an Amazon second headquarters, which could require up to 8 million square feet. These include the north Mississippi riverfront, downtown St. Louis (including the vacant AT&T tower and sites south of Interstate 64), Fenton Logistics Park (the old Chrysler plant), NorthPark (the old Ford plant), the former MetLife (General American) facility in South County and a site in Wellston.
This BJ article quotes Stanger saying:
“We have Washington University, SLU, UMSL, Maryville, Lindenwood and an excellent community college system,” Stenger said. “To think we can’t ramp up tech programs at all of these institutions and that they somehow don’t have tech programs is wrong.”
Regarding "how much is this bid costing us?"And Boyd said the talent shortage may not be such a big barrier.
“It’s such a special company,” he said. “This is an employer of choice and it is the type of company that people relocate for.”
From the BJ Article:
Our StrenghtsStenger said so far, work on the project is being done within the region’s current “economic development apparatus,” meaning extra money isn’t being spent.
Bob Clark, chairman and CEO of construction firm Clayco, and architecture company HOK are doing pro bono work on the project, Stenger said.
Wash U + 4 other top 200 colleges. Strong community colleges
Possible Status as "Right to Work"
Plenty of fiber connectivity
Cheap available land
Transit
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... zon-s.html"Boyd said St. Louis’ biggest strength is that it’s dissimilar to Seattle, Amazon's home city."
“Logistically speaking, St. Louis is in the sweet spot for Amazon,” Boyd said. “But there are underlying themes that don’t get as much play. Seattle is a love-it-or-hate-it city and there isn’t much middle ground. From the weather to the demographics. It’s ultra progressive. That compromised Boeing’s ability to attract the best and brightest before they moved their headquarters to Chicago. Amazon is experiencing the same thing. St. Louis could bring some centrality to the company.”
- 1,613
Why does SIUe always get left out? Because it's on the other side of the river? 14k students - larger than 3 of the 5 schools he noted.moorlander wrote: ↑Sep 13, 2017
Regarding Talent Pool
This BJ article quotes Stanger saying:“We have Washington University, SLU, UMSL, Maryville, Lindenwood and an excellent community college system,” Stenger said. “To think we can’t ramp up tech programs at all of these institutions and that they somehow don’t have tech programs is wrong.”
- 2,430
If Amazon really is serious about the need for a 500K-1M sq. ft. building ready for 2019 I think the only place this could go is downtown.... frankly, our empty real estate is the only thing that even makes us have a chance imo.
,
,
- 1,792
Actually that is a good point... I wonder how other metros fair in that regard. I suspect Chicago could absorb them but even some of the other biggies might struggle to do so.STLrainbow wrote: ↑Sep 13, 2017If Amazon really is serious about the need for a 500K-1M sq. ft. building ready for 2019 I think the only place this could go is downtown.... frankly, our empty real estate is the only thing that even makes us have a chance imo.
- 760
Just met up with my buddy who is a prominent, and I mean prominent, commercial real estate mover and shaker. He is in the biz journal 10 times a year. Anyway, he said there exists a very good chance the city owns the AT&T tower soon. And then it will be offered to AMZN.
I can't read this but the title seems to lead to it being a lot cheaper to buy than it had been.whitherSTL wrote: ↑Sep 13, 2017Just met up with my buddy who is a prominent, and I mean prominent, commercial real estate mover and shaker. He is in the biz journal 10 times a year. Anyway, he said there exists a very good chance the city owns the AT&T tower soon. And then it will be offered to AMZN.
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... ashed.html
Frankly, it's absurd that it gets limited to the Universities in the immediate Metro anyways.
You don't think there are thousands of students getting an exceptional tech education at University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign three hours from here that might be willing to consider moving to St. Louis? A good chunk of them already identify with St. Louis by being from the Metro East or Southern Illinois.
I can't speak to Mizzou's tech education, but I'm sure they're solid at least with a number of students as well. And those are just the flagship universities of the two states. There are plenty of others as well. You don't have to go to school in St. Louis to apply to a job here. Seems like a big miss to suggest otherwise.
Yes, Illinois is one of the top Comp Sci universities in the entire world.
I'm really, really not worried about the local universities thing. Even if they did all magically start sucking overnight, Amazon's main talent isn't from Seattle colleges, it is from people all over the world relocating there.
I'm really, really not worried about the local universities thing. Even if they did all magically start sucking overnight, Amazon's main talent isn't from Seattle colleges, it is from people all over the world relocating there.