urbanSTL

framer wrote: ↑

Aug 14, 2020

We're screwed. 

STL has no leaders. 

Even my most "progressive" friends are opposed to Ward reduction. They're opposed to ANY sort of City/County consolidation. They're opposed to (even the idea of) airport privatization. They claim to be "progressive", but really they're just another generation of the same old - same old. 

Meanwhile, folks heading out of town keep telling us what we're doing wrong, but we don't listen. We just keep on doing the same sh*t, expecting a different result. 

I'm frustrated. I just don't get it. 

I'd ask your "progressive" friends what the last 60+ years of the status quo has gotten done for Black lives in this region.  What has the status quo accomplished in fixing the region's crushing income and racial inequalities (among other issues)?  True progressives care about these things and want to make the changes to address them.  If your friends aren't into fixing those issues...call them what they are to their face.  Small-minded, parochial conservatives.  Tell them to stop b*tching about problems on Twitter like most progressives and be a part of an actual solution.

For what it's worth my office is in Chesterfield and many of the people I communicate with out there (typically the small-minded, parochial types) actually want to make changes (usually saying something along the lines of "I'm not crazy about it, but we have got to do something").  I don't agree with a lot of what they have to say in general, but only an idiot couldn't see the writing on the wall in this region.  Even my ultra-Conservative father is ready for some sort of consolidation.  Now, he's a partner at one of the larger privately held firms in St. Louis so he knows that if we keep going down this road it'll eventually get bad for his business too.  I've also been beating this stuff into his head for years lol.

Either way, you're a part of the solution or a part of the problem...it sounds like your progressive friends are part of the problem.  I'd be blunt and tell them right to their face.  Tell them maintaining the status quo in St. Louis is basically a vote for the racist, exclusionary policies this region has been pushing for the last century.  If that doesn't set them straight, then they've shown their true colors.

^ Well said, and I pretty much agree.

For what it's worth, I wasn't trying to sh*t on progressives in general (I, mostly, consider myself one), but sitting around rejecting every plan (rightfully on the airport, not so much on consolidation or ward reduction) with no other suggestion, as you point out, really burns my ass.

^^ Which is a shame because Sinquifield, as far as I know, wasn’t behind Proposition R (the original ward reduction prop in 2012, and so what if he was...it’s still sound policy) and he’s also not behind the Board of Freeholders which is where the primary re-entry idea has come from.  The Municipal League is behind that and considering their previous stances on merger talk, the fact that Pat Kelly and his organization collected the signatures to start the process is somewhat noteworthy in my opinion.

Better Together is dead.  It’s not coming back...but I think people saw what that would have entailed and have since opened their mind toward something like re-entry and smaller more incremental improvements.  Like the Municipal League for example.

It sounds like these progressives you speak of have lost sight of the forest for the trees.  They need to compartmentalize their hatred for Rex.  His plan for airport privatization is bad and so far, probably dead.  His BT plan is dead and gone.  I don’t know what they’re so scared of, his two biggest initiatives have basically gone down in flames lol.

^ He deserves his sh*tty reputation...but when people are letting his reputation cloud their judgment about good sound policy proposals that he's not involved in (like re-entry and reduction), we have a problem.

STLrainbow wrote: ↑

Aug 14, 2020

^ again, this idea that "progressives" don't support things like ward reduction, Board of Freeholders/re-entry, etc. is made up.... some do, some don't. There is no problem with "progressives" anymore than there is with other groups. Haterz just gonna hate, I guess.  

Framer mentioned his progressive friends, that's who I'm referring too.  I know plenty of progressives, myself included, that support these things (see my reply to u_d further up thread).  We're just able to separate Rex from it, which is what I'm taking issue with.  I'd hardly call any of this "hatred."

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Aug 15, 2020

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Aug 14, 2020

^ He deserves his sh*tty reputation...but when people are letting his reputation cloud their judgment about good sound policy proposals that he's not involved in (like re-entry and reduction), we have a problem.

is that even happening? i don't think the opposition to unification and ward reduction has anything to do with Stinquefield. but people rightly distrust him because of his repeated attempts to kill the earnings tax despite overwhelming public support for it, because of his shady involvement in the airport business, and generally because he throws dark money all over the place to promote his personal agenda. like i said in another thread, he's currently funding an effort to recall alderwoman Spencer because she's been successful at tanking his dirty airport efforts. he's paying people--some of whom aren't even city residents--to collect signatures. he's a f*cking billionaire baby.

I was replying to comments like this:

framer wrote:Even my most "progressive" friends are opposed to Ward reduction. They're opposed to ANY sort of City/County consolidation. They're opposed to (even the idea of) airport privatization. They claim to be "progressive", but really they're just another generation of the same old - same old.

framer wrote:Progressives hate All Things Sinquifield.  Unfortunately, his name is now permanently linked to some of the bigger initiatives around here. Progressives will automatically reject anything he has supported, without ever giving it a fair hearing (heck, one of my friends even attacks any artist who dares show their work at the Chess Museum).

Is people conflating ward reduction and re-entry with Rex widespread?  I don't believe so, but again, I was replying to the quotes here...not making a general statement about different types of voters.  As for Rex, yeah he's a piece of sh*t, I wasn't arguing that.

A pretty pro-privatization piece from The Atlantic. A passing mention of St. Louis too.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ts/615331/