909 Chestnut - Former Southwestern Bell/SBC/AT&T Tower

symphonicpoet · PostAug 03, 2018#2262018-08-03T02:48+00:00

^bwcrow1s,

I'm sure you're right. I think I had in my mind Bayer moving the entire operation from Creve Coeur AT&T. That might, maybe, almost do it. But there really is (or at least was an undisclosed number of years ago) a lot of lab space out there with all the vents, hoods, and gas cylinders that entails. Doubtless lots of offices too, but I didn't get quiet Sunday tours of the offices, just my dad's lab space. Anyway . . . I think the articles mentioned that Bayer is indeed moving some of their lab functions to St. Louis, but that may end up out in Chesterfield anyway, since that's where most of the crop science stuff is. (I forget precisely what they said they were moving and what they weren't. Some things, but not all things.)

San Luis Native · PostAug 03, 2018#2272018-08-03T12:25+00:00

^Monsanto had done a lot of new construction on the Chesterfield campus in recent years. I don't know all of the details but my understanding is that it is basically lab and office space for plant sciences. I know this construction was going on as recently as last fall.

topher · PostAug 03, 2018#2282018-08-03T16:51+00:00

Bayer is going to be moving their North America ag hq from RTP to St. Louis, using the current offices in Creve Coeur and the research headquarters in Chesterfield (where they just completed a new $400m building last fall, with new labs, offices and greenhouses) and are currently finishing full renovations of the existing rooftop greenhouses. Of the possible facility changes coming from the Bayer/Monsanto merger, moving downtown is not on the list.

framer · PostFeb 20, 2019#2292019-02-20T17:28+00:00

Chris has a great writeup on proposed renovations to the empty ATT Tower. Lighting up the crown is a no-brainer, but I'm not too thrilled with some of the plans to completely re-build the main entrance and lobby area. That's an integral part of the building's overall architecture, and most of the plans look like major muck-ups to me.

https://www.cityscene-stl.com/news/rede ... town-tower

aprice · PostFeb 20, 2019#2302019-02-20T19:06+00:00

This would be a great example of how it's not that hard to repair the mistakes of 80s skyscrapers. Street level activation would be simple on a lot of these buildings (Stifel, One Met, 100 N Bway). Unfortunately we obviously have a chicken and egg of bad pedestrian experience and low retail demand. It's hard to criticize the building owners for ignoring the sidewalk. So it's nice to see HOK's rendering showing retail on all sides. Oddly though, HOK's renderings also ignore the awful parking ramps and sidewalk situation on the sides of the building. But then again they also show the now demolished sky bridges.

bwcrow1s · PostFeb 21, 2019#2312019-02-21T12:45+00:00

Does anyone have rumblings about potential tenants?

Hard to imagine the owners want to dump millions for nothing, especially when the entire building is going to need to be renovated (essentially rebuilt from the inside out to make it more attractive).

chriss752 · PostFeb 21, 2019#2322019-02-21T21:58+00:00

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑
Feb 21, 2019
Does anyone have rumblings about potential tenants?

Hard to imagine the owners want to dump millions for nothing, especially when the entire building is going to need to be renovated (essentially rebuilt from the inside out to make it more attractive).

I know of four companies, all names you have heard of, looking at the building and two of the four going as far as to prepare to send in letters of intent. I can't reveal the names for the sake of the dealings.

bwcrow1s · PostFeb 22, 2019#2332019-02-22T12:17+00:00

chriss752 wrote: ↑
Feb 21, 2019

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑
Feb 21, 2019
Does anyone have rumblings about potential tenants?

Hard to imagine the owners want to dump millions for nothing, especially when the entire building is going to need to be renovated (essentially rebuilt from the inside out to make it more attractive).
I know of four companies, all names you have heard of, looking at the building and two of the four going as far as to prepare to send in letters of intent. I can't reveal the names for the sake of the dealings.

Hey, that's great news! I'm not sure I can tolerate being on the edge of my seat on so many things though.

Any hope of residential here still? Or did that go out the window with the Clayco proposal? I mean, I think apartments/penthouses here are a no-brainer. Imagine the views.

jshank83 · PostFeb 22, 2019#2342019-02-22T15:18+00:00

chriss752 wrote: ↑
Feb 21, 2019

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑
Feb 21, 2019
Does anyone have rumblings about potential tenants?

Hard to imagine the owners want to dump millions for nothing, especially when the entire building is going to need to be renovated (essentially rebuilt from the inside out to make it more attractive).
I know of four companies, all names you have heard of, looking at the building and two of the four going as far as to prepare to send in letters of intent. I can't reveal the names for the sake of the dealings.

New to downtown or just moving? Would be great if they are new to STL but I doubt that they are.

PlatinumBlues · PostFeb 22, 2019#2352019-02-22T20:33+00:00

According to the biz journal the owner of the building will be putting up for auction

sc4mayor · PostFeb 23, 2019#2362019-02-23T04:23+00:00

Chris' "all names we've heard of" leads me to believe it's a company already based in St. Louis.

My total unsubstantiated guess? Enterprise.
But this is a monster of a building, so I'll believe it when I see it.

TCB · PostMar 21, 2019#2372019-03-21T15:26+00:00

Building to be auctioned off on April 16. Starting bid is 7m.

MattnSTL · PostMar 21, 2019#2382019-03-21T17:21+00:00

^That's my birthday. Anyone want to get a nice gift for your friendly forum moderator?

stlien · PostMar 21, 2019#2392019-03-21T17:24+00:00

TCB wrote: ↑
Mar 21, 2019
Building to be auctioned off on April 16. Starting bid is 7m.

I thought the auction was just a rumor.

dredger · PostMar 21, 2019#2402019-03-21T23:03+00:00

So the auction gets the one legit bid from Clayco development group at 12-14 million vs. 18 million the last time..... or their is legitimate interest and the second auction at least gets to a number that current debt holders are willing to part ways and will see the real possibility of space being leased.

My wishful thinking is that Clayco development group has been working with someone who has decided to commit to the city itself.

My totally speculative thought is that Taylor family is working on two major commitment in the city, MLS team/stadium as already known and a major jobs announcement once a site/second campus is finalized. Could be completely off base but Enterprise/National car rental committing as a anchor tenant for ATT One Center, or a new Koman/Cupples X tower, or BPV phase III is feasible and a big plus to keep downtown development moving forward

symphonicpoet · PostMar 22, 2019#2412019-03-22T03:53+00:00

^At least the auction makes it sound like something really will happen this time. I can't imagine the building wouldn't sell with a starting bid that low.

chriss752 · PostMar 22, 2019#2422019-03-22T06:50+00:00

dredger wrote: ↑
Mar 21, 2019
So the auction gets the one legit bid from Clayco development group at 12-14 million vs. 18 million the last time..... or their is legitimate interest and the second auction at least gets to a number that current debt holders are willing to part ways and will see the real possibility of space being leased.

My wishful thinking is that Clayco development group has been working with someone who has decided to commit to the city itself.

My totally speculative thought is that Taylor family is working on two major commitment in the city, MLS team/stadium as already known and a major jobs announcement once a site/second campus is finalized. Could be completely off base but Enterprise/National car rental committing as a anchor tenant for ATT One Center, or a new Koman/Cupples X tower, or BPV phase III is feasible and a big plus to keep downtown development moving forward

Clayco is definitely in contention. Since they had interest in the past, why not? As for Enterprise, I think they will continue to build in Clayton. Weren't they looking at buying the old juvenile jail next door to their current campus and building? If so, why would they move Downtown or put a second campus? Maybe I am over thinking it. As for Cupples X by Koman, if it were to return, definitely no tower. BPV 3 is a good idea.

jshank83 · PostMar 22, 2019#2432019-03-22T15:57+00:00

dredger wrote: ↑
Mar 21, 2019
Could be completely off base but Enterprise/National car rental committing as a anchor tenant for ATT One Center,

I see people throw this out once in awhile but I don't really get the background thinking of it. They aren't leaving Clayton (they want to build more on their campus there it if they can get their hands on the old courts building), so how many employees would they really have to throw into this tower to even make a dent in it? I know they have some out in Maryland heights, I guess they could move those, but I can't imagine it would be that many.

dredger · PostMar 22, 2019#2442019-03-22T17:49+00:00

jshank83 wrote: ↑
Mar 22, 2019

dredger wrote: ↑
Mar 21, 2019
Could be completely off base but Enterprise/National car rental committing as a anchor tenant for ATT One Center,
I see people throw this out once in awhile but I don't really get the background thinking of it. They aren't leaving Clayton (they want to build more on their campus there it if they can get their hands on the old courts building), so how many employees would they really have to throw into this tower to even make a dent in it? I know they have some out in Maryland heights, I guess they could move those, but I can't imagine it would be that many.

Thinking in terms of a smaller tech campus, different feel and vibe to recruit new blood outside your standard corporate campus that happens to be within Clayton Central Business District but could easily be along I64 in West County, etc. Or maybe the family has moved on from the old courts building and decided something different to consolidate space that if might currently has leased in the county but outside of its current HQ. I believe their trend is continued growth worldwide and will continue to build technology into their business model so a wishful, speculative thought for downtown.

jshank83 · PostMar 22, 2019#2452019-03-22T18:21+00:00

dredger wrote: ↑
Mar 22, 2019

jshank83 wrote: ↑
Mar 22, 2019

dredger wrote: ↑
Mar 21, 2019
Could be completely off base but Enterprise/National car rental committing as a anchor tenant for ATT One Center,
I see people throw this out once in awhile but I don't really get the background thinking of it. They aren't leaving Clayton (they want to build more on their campus there it if they can get their hands on the old courts building), so how many employees would they really have to throw into this tower to even make a dent in it? I know they have some out in Maryland heights, I guess they could move those, but I can't imagine it would be that many.
Thinking in terms of a smaller tech campus, different feel and vibe to recruit new blood outside your standard corporate campus that happens to be within Clayton Central Business District but could easily be along I64 in West County, etc. Or maybe the family has moved on from the old courts building and decided something different to consolidate space that if might currently has leased in the county but outside of its current HQ. I believe their trend is continued growth worldwide and will continue to build technology into their business model so a wishful, speculative thought for downtown.

I understand the thought they could put people downtown and I think that makes sense. For me it is just when people mention they could go into ATT. The way people talk is it is going to take someone with a big workforce to go in there first and take up a big chunk. I just don't think Enterprise fits that bill because I don't think they won't be looking for a ton of space if they go downtown. I could see them being in some of the smaller spots mentioned (by you and others) instead.

My hope is still that someone like square/twitter goes in there and takes a good chunk of space. Assuming (possibly incorrectly) they would have a younger workforce they might not be as concerned about the lack of parking and have employees that take public transit more often. Besides something like that I am not sure who I see going in there and taking a chunk of it. Hopefully this auction lends a clue to what might happen.

sc4mayor · PostMar 22, 2019#2462019-03-22T21:10+00:00

^ While I agree that Enterprise isn't likely entertaining a large move downtown, I would say they could pull it off before Twitter or Square could. You can easily pack 5,000 people in the AT&T Center. Twitter employs a total of about 4,000 people. IF that rumor holds true about them possibly opening an office here, it's not likely they're moving the whole gang to St. Louis, though I would love to be wrong. Square has a little bit over 2,000 employees and recently bought a huge new building in Oakland, so I'm not thinking they're going to add more than the 800 or so they're already planning here. My money is on Square landing at the old PD building. and Twitter likely ending up there too should they choose St. Louis for another office.

Having said all that, I do think if Bob Clark and Clayco are making a serious offer they have to be in talks with a few different folks. Whether that be a single tenant or multiple, why spend that kind of money and then sit on an empty building?

jshank83 · PostMar 22, 2019#2472019-03-22T21:48+00:00

The Mayor wrote: ↑
Mar 22, 2019
^ While I agree that Enterprise isn't likely entertaining a large move downtown, I would say they could pull it off before Twitter or Square could. You can easily pack 5,000 people in the AT&T Center. Twitter employs a total of about 4,000 people. IF that rumor holds true about them possibly opening an office here, it's not likely they're moving the whole gang to St. Louis, though I would love to be wrong. Square has a little bit over 2,000 employees and recently bought a huge new building in Oakland, so I'm not thinking they're going to add more than the 800 or so they're already planning here. My money is on Square landing at the old PD building. and Twitter likely ending up there too should they choose St. Louis for another office.

Having said all that, I do think if Bob Clark and Clayco are making a serious offer they have to be in talks with a few different folks. Whether that be a single tenant or multiple, why spend that kind of money and then sit on an empty building?

Doesn't this rule out the PD building for them? Or are they different buildings?

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... dc820.html

dredger · PostMar 22, 2019#2482019-03-22T21:50+00:00

The reason why I bring up Enterprise so often and what Mayor gets at is shear size and scope of the company. Enterprise 2017 revenue @ roughly $22.3 billion, Twitter 2017 @ $2.44 billion and Square 2017 @ $1.9 billion. Enterprise is literally five times the size of Twitter & Square combined and might easily need 1-2 thousand more employees in the given years. Big companies need a lot of employees.

symphonicpoet · PostMar 23, 2019#2492019-03-23T08:13+00:00

^And they have a bunch of small satellite offices around town for centralized reservations, IT, fleet management, and the like. Middle management and customer service. Cube farms. Boiler rooms. I could easily see that they'd like to consolidate their smaller offices into something more centralized. And they absolutely want to grow. Doesn't mean they'll move downtown. (They have in the past expressed a pretty keen disinterest in that.) But times change and even the must stubborn and stoic amongst us change with them. I wouldn't bet on the big E, but I'd guess them before Dorsey. As Dredger said: they're just that much bigger. (And Twitter has some very big challenges they need to stare down and Square has some absolutely vicious competition they need to deal with.) On the other hand, there are other companies around town and other possible solutions. We shall see.

STLrainbow · PostMar 23, 2019#2502019-03-23T13:39+00:00

^^^ jshank; that is an older old Post Dispatch Building... I think it may originally have been known as the Centennial Building and is where the Board of Elections is now. So that potential redevelopment is unrelated to McKelvey's plans for his newly purchased building (old Globe-Democrat Building that Post-Dispatch moved into) where the P-D is consolidating into just a few floors.

As for Enterprise, let's make it a One Rediscovering Downtown Center; 20 county-based companies taking up 2 floors each and you got some solid occupancy! don't have to relocate hq; just get with the 21c. a bit.

909 Chestnut - Former Southwestern Bell/SBC/AT&T Tower

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