500 S. Broadway - Redevelopment Coming?

roger wyoming II · PostMay 24, 2016#12016-05-24T12:41+00:00

Keep an eye out on this surface parking lot directly across Busch for an upcoming redevelopment proposal:

I don't know anything about the project other than what was said earlier this year about this property -- which was that it was being purchased with redevelopment plans -- but I can confirm that this lot indeed changed hands earlier this month and that the new owner is a major actor in developing towers in Nashville.

Here is one such tower being constructed by Tony Giarratana right now:

At 543 feet tall, 505 would be Nashville's tallest skyscraper based on occupied floors. In addition to the 550 units, 505 will have up to 10,000 square feet of restaurant space plus a pair of 800-square-foot retail spaces.
http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/h ... /75875514/

Now, I'm not saying we'll get anything like that here and he may sit on that lot for some time before he feels conditions are ripe to pull the trigger on whatever vision he has for that property; however, we've already heard something is brewing and it is really nice to have the lot in the hands of someone who really does have experience with high-rise downtown development.

framer · PostMay 24, 2016#22016-05-24T16:57+00:00

I just drooled all over my keyboard.

arch city · PostMay 24, 2016#32016-05-24T18:22+00:00

This firm does go hard. By the way, this is the same guy (company) that at one time reportedly "consulted" with Montgomery Development on Clayton's Montgomery Tower, which is apparently on hold.

I am glad that something may happen with this lot. It's a prime and highly-visible lot. It's a shame though that a developer from another part of the country appears to see more value in the lot than local firms.

Hopefully, if development comes to fruition for this lot, development will spread south and east.

goat314 · PostMay 24, 2016#42016-05-24T19:06+00:00

^ local developers live here and are victims to the negative echo chambers that stifle progress in St. Louis. Outsiders can look at the city more objectively, for better or worse, and make more pragmatic decisions. Case in point, an outside developer would have developed the empty lots across the street from one of the most popular and profitable sports franchises in the country.

jsbru · PostMay 24, 2016#52016-05-24T19:39+00:00

goat314 wrote:^ local developers live here and are victims to the negative echo chambers that stifle progress in St. Louis. Outsiders can look at the city more objectively, for better or worse, and make more pragmatic decisions. Case in point, an outside developer would have developed the empty lots across the street from one of the most popular and profitable sports franchises in the country.

Unfortunately, this is too true. It's going to take outsiders having faith in St. Louis to get anything done. The culture in this metro area is so toxic, it will be unable to save itself.

Other than the Gills, and the recent UIC groundbreaking, every new major announcement this year seems to be from outside developers. Same with Arcade-Wright, which was just finished.

arch city · PostMay 24, 2016#62016-05-24T19:41+00:00

goat314 wrote:^ local developers live here and are victims to the negative echo chambers that stifle progress in St. Louis. Outsiders can look at the city more objectively, for better or worse, and make more pragmatic decisions. Case in point, an outside developer would have developed the empty lots across the street from one of the most popular and profitable sports franchises in the country.

I agree for the most part, but I believe the hold up at BPV has more to do with the St. Louis Cardinals (Bill The Third) than it does Cordish. All Bill Three has to say is......."Let's go" and Cordish, I believe, could make it happen.

roger wyoming II · PostMay 24, 2016#72016-05-24T20:13+00:00

^^ you can add Koman to the Gills as a local with an announced DT project, and of course Brandonview has been very active, but I believe all the rest of the recent medium-to-large-sized proposals are coming from outsiders so far. That's great to get the national attention but it would be nice to get a few more locals back in the action. One question also arises of whether our locals are able to secure the financing as easily as some of these others might be able to.

addxb2 · PostMay 24, 2016#82016-05-24T20:15+00:00

arch city wrote:
goat314 wrote:^ local developers live here and are victims to the negative echo chambers that stifle progress in St. Louis. Outsiders can look at the city more objectively, for better or worse, and make more pragmatic decisions. Case in point, an outside developer would have developed the empty lots across the street from one of the most popular and profitable sports franchises in the country.
I agree for the most part, but I believe the hold up at BPV has more to do with the St. Louis Cardinals (Bill The Third) than it does Cordish. All Bill Three has to say is......."Let's go" and Cordish, I believe, could make it happen.

I've heard from good sources that it's the opposite. At least in regards to office, Cordish won't build until they have a tenant committed.

dweebe · PostMay 24, 2016#92016-05-24T20:24+00:00

arch city wrote:
goat314 wrote:^ local developers live here and are victims to the negative echo chambers that stifle progress in St. Louis. Outsiders can look at the city more objectively, for better or worse, and make more pragmatic decisions. Case in point, an outside developer would have developed the empty lots across the street from one of the most popular and profitable sports franchises in the country.
I agree for the most part, but I believe the hold up at BPV has more to do with the St. Louis Cardinals (Bill The Third) than it does Cordish. All Bill Three has to say is......."Let's go" and Cordish, I believe, could make it happen.

I get the feeling that if something gets built on this lot and a Cupples building goes up, the Cardinals/Corish will claim the market is over saturated in the area and there's no reason to build at BPV.

Side note: I know it makes me a bad urbanist, but a few weeks ago I took family to the Cardinals game and to accommodate an older family member we parked in the Stadium West garage to make the walk as short as possible. Even though the stadium was pretty darn full and the attendance announced at 40,000 the Stadium West garage was half full.

My point? This 500 S. lot could be built on and losing the spots would be no big deal.

roger wyoming II · PostMay 24, 2016#102016-05-24T20:27+00:00

^ good point!

^^ yeah, I can see both parties not wanting to do spec office -- and Koman asked for 25 yr. abatement for its project which looks to be a non-starter for BoA -- but I'd really think that on the residential(and hotel) end that if the DeWitts wanted to see it happen even with a bit of risk it would have happened. If not, they got themselves into a crappy agreement if their selected partner is holding them back.

wabash · PostMay 25, 2016#112016-05-25T03:37+00:00

roger wyoming II wrote:^^ you can add Koman to the Gills as a local with an announced DT project, and of course Brandonview has been very active.

And Mills, Rothschild, Lawrence Group, Bob O'Louglin/LHM - not announcements this year, but come on - let's stop pretending local developers aren't investing Downtown and throughout the Central Corridor.

arch city · PostMay 25, 2016#122016-05-25T06:30+00:00

jsbru wrote:Unfortunately, this is too true. It's going to take outsiders having faith in St. Louis to get anything done. The culture in this metro area is so toxic, it will be unable to save itself.

Other than the Gills, and the recent UIC groundbreaking, every new major announcement this year seems to be from outside developers. Same with Arcade-Wright, which was just finished.

I agree in part, but let's keep in mind that there are some great developers in St. Louis and many are doing good things in the City of St. Louis. The Lawrence Group, GreenStreet, Opus-St. Louis, Balke-Brown Transwestern, McCormack-Baron Salazar, Washington University, Mills Properties, Drury Development, Koman Group - just to name a few.

Although these are very respectable developers (plus an institution) who are doing great projects, Giarratana Development's projects go big. I haven't seen a modest project yet.

St. Louis needs a Tony Giarratana (shown below). It's amazing there isn't one. Giarratana reminds me of Houston's Gerald Hines from back in the day. Big, ambitious projects in Houston, Dallas and Atlanta.

The closest St. Louis has now to a Tony Giarratana is Bob Clark of Clayco (with Centene I, 6105 Delmar, BJC Mid-Campus, NorthPark). And at one time, Conrad Properties (Clayton on the Park, Maryland Walk, 4545 Lindell, MetroLofts) was on a roll, but now all you hear from them are crickets.

Ebsy · PostMay 25, 2016#132016-05-25T08:59+00:00

I'm definitely not going to get my hopes up, but a new tower rising in downtown St. Louis is an intoxicating thought.

roger wyoming II · PostMay 25, 2016#142016-05-25T13:41+00:00

Right, I'd love to see a local go really big on downtown... remember Drury talk about a 30 story tower?

wabash wrote:
roger wyoming II wrote:^^ you can add Koman to the Gills as a local with an announced DT project, and of course Brandonview has been very active.
And Mills, Rothschild, Lawrence Group, Bob O'Louglin/LHM - not announcements this year, but come on - let's stop pretending local developers aren't investing Downtown and throughout the Central Corridor.

I don't think anyone is saying that local developers haven't been engaged downtown, we're just pointing out that outsiders have led this recent wave of significant announcements. LHM can be excused as they have a $100M project underway in Union Station and Rothschild is working on the small/medium Beull Building project, but I'm not aware of anything that folks like Mills, Lawrence Group, Drury, Covington Partners etc. have planned for downtown... hopefully they are actively looking and will have exciting announcements to make soon!

arch city · PostMay 25, 2016#152016-05-25T14:10+00:00

And let's not forget Amos Harris led the evolution of the MX District.

St.Louis1764 · PostMay 26, 2016#162016-05-26T01:15+00:00

addxb2 wrote:
arch city wrote:
goat314 wrote:^ local developers live here and are victims to the negative echo chambers that stifle progress in St. Louis. Outsiders can look at the city more objectively, for better or worse, and make more pragmatic decisions. Case in point, an outside developer would have developed the empty lots across the street from one of the most popular and profitable sports franchises in the country.
I agree for the most part, but I believe the hold up at BPV has more to do with the St. Louis Cardinals (Bill The Third) than it does Cordish. All Bill Three has to say is......."Let's go" and Cordish, I believe, could make it happen.
I've heard from good sources that it's the opposite. At least in regards to office, Cordish won't build until they have a tenant committed.

Both Cordish and Cardinals had 2 potential anchor tenants that they allowed to slip away by simply dragging their feets on the over all project . Centene and Stifel.
Just think about if either of those projects or both were located within BPV downtown would have such a completely different looking skyline by now.

dredger · PostMay 26, 2016#172016-05-26T02:51+00:00

addxb2 wrote:
arch city wrote:
goat314 wrote:^ local developers live here and are victims to the negative echo chambers that stifle progress in St. Louis. Outsiders can look at the city more objectively, for better or worse, and make more pragmatic decisions. Case in point, an outside developer would have developed the empty lots across the street from one of the most popular and profitable sports franchises in the country.
I agree for the most part, but I believe the hold up at BPV has more to do with the St. Louis Cardinals (Bill The Third) than it does Cordish. All Bill Three has to say is......."Let's go" and Cordish, I believe, could make it happen.
I've heard from good sources that it's the opposite. At least in regards to office, Cordish won't build until they have a tenant committed.

Addxb2 comments make a lot of sense. I can't see Cordish signing an agreement that leaves them at the mercy of Bill III unless DeWitt family is willing to bear the risk. Furthermore, not only I do see Cordish wanting to have a anchor tenant committed but also see them seeking a premium that is most likely unrealistic for the market unless city backs bonds, think KC. I can only assume that Centene and Stifel looked at the deal, ran the numbers and realized that they were far better off getting into Real Estate themselves.

arch city · PostMay 26, 2016#182016-05-26T15:55+00:00

Want to know who's the boss at BPV?

When the media (or local powers-that-be) want know "What's next at BPV?" they don't go to Cordish for the answers. They go to Bill The Third.

When was the last interview a "Cordish" representative gave in regards to new projects "Cordish" is planning at BPV? Also, remember the Cardinals brought in Cordish to develop the area - not the other way around.

Cordish isn't running a damn thing at the BPV site. They will move when Trey tells them to.

PostMay 26, 2016#192016-05-26T16:00+00:00

Keep in mind too that Bob Clark of Clayco is on record practically flaming the progress (or lack thereof) and politics at BPV.

Bob has built numerous new towers (residential and office) in St. Louis and elsewhere to Trey's one retractable roof entertainment food court.

What's happening at BPV is laughable and it is because Trey doesn't know what the hell he is doing.

If it's true Tony Giarratana now owns this lot, I hope he comes in and shows them all how it's supposed to be done.

PostMay 26, 2016#202016-05-26T16:25+00:00

Let Mr. Giarratana know that St. Louis would like to see one of his awesome developments dotting the St. Louis skyline.

tony@giarratana.com

St.Louis1764 · PostMay 27, 2016#212016-05-27T00:40+00:00

@least these out of town developers and other local developers see a St.Louis market thats ready to explode with new development .
The DeWitts should be ashamed of themselves if this were a different developer i could definitely see cranes in the skyline on this grand piece of real estate .
Whatever Mr Giarrantana has in mind will definitely be a possible skyline changer

shadrach · PostJun 01, 2016#222016-06-01T16:04+00:00

Article just posted in STLToday (Building Blocks, still don't know how to add truncated links) is tempering expectations, indicating he'll probably sit on it and maintain status quo. Hope not....

roger wyoming II · PostJun 01, 2016#232016-06-01T16:19+00:00

^ Disappointing on one hand but on the other If the market isn't ready for a tower there yet it's a good thing not to pursue something bleh. At least it's in the hands of someone who I'm sure is thinking about it's long-term potential and capable of big things.

arch city · PostJun 01, 2016#242016-06-01T16:27+00:00

shadrach wrote:Article just posted in STLToday (Building Blocks, still don't know how to add truncated links) is tempering expectations, indicating he'll probably sit on it and maintain status quo. Hope not....

Yeah, a lot developers usually don't tip their hand (or reveal their intentions) until it's very obvious something is brewing.

Maybe something is brewing............down the road.

At least we know, for sure, the land is owned by a big developer. And that's a good thing.

rbeedee · PostJun 01, 2016#252016-06-01T19:58+00:00

Here's the link: What's happening at 500 South Broadway?
Kind of disappointing/nerve-wracking that it's owned by a subsidiary called Premier Parking, which plans to use it as a surface lot for the foreseeable future, and whose other interests in St. Louis development are parking garage-focused.