My gosh, I can't help but think about how this area might feel after this and Narwhal's are completed, and if the lots at 4101 Manchester and the former gas station site near Chroma are also developed.
This is amazing. Beautiful artwork on the blank walls, no cheesy facade, added density, street level retail. Very exciting stuff, really fits the whole vibe of The Grove.
I'm not a fan of what appears to be concrete block. Hopefully that's just an effect of the rendering, and maybe they're using something nice like terra cotta. I'd like it to look less industrial, and a bit more refined.
I’m a little surprised they’re not trying to incorporate some of the glazed pink brick. As far as FPSE goes, it’s kind of a staple look for the intersection.
I’m a little surprised they’re not trying to incorporate some of the glazed pink brick. As far as FPSE goes, it’s kind of a staple look for the intersection.
They are, but likely not brick from the building itself.
Also, love a good night time rendering and conceptual artist activation
Looks to me like they've designed this building to handle expansion on the lots next to it. Makes me wonder if that two-story brick building with Tropical Liqueurs might be targeted next.
Across the street, I'm also wondering what the owners of Rehab might be thinking. It wouldn't shock me if we get a proposal with similar massing for that lot in the next few years, too. I also wouldn't be surprised if a proposal would include the 4036 Manchester lot to create an impressive street wall with the Chouteau Building and Narwhal's.
Last random thought: Wouldn't be shocked if Commerce Bank sells that Vandeventer/Chouteau location at some point in the future and moves into a smaller storefront within the Grove district, just as they are doing on Delmar with their U-City location.
Looks to me like they've designed this building to handle expansion on the lots next to it. Makes me wonder if that two-story brick building with Tropical Liqueurs might be targeted next.
Across the street, I'm also wondering what the owners of Rehab might be thinking. It wouldn't shock me if we get a proposal with similar massing for that lot in the next few years, too. I also wouldn't be surprised if a proposal would include the 4036 Manchester lot to create an impressive street wall with the Chouteau Building and Narwhal's.
Last random thought: Wouldn't be shocked if Commerce Bank sells that Vandeventer/Chouteau location at some point in the future and moves into a smaller storefront within the Grove district, just as they are doing on Delmar with their U-City location.
I don't think it would be good to tear down one of the few remaining LGBTQ nightlife destinations that survived the pandemic. Rehab brings lots of foot traffic to the Grove, it's not like every lot has to be a multistory apartment building for the neighborhood to be vibrant.
I'm not advocating for the closure of Rehab. I'm merely wondering what Rehab ownership might be thinking right now.
Because, what if the owner of the Rehab lot wants to sell and cash out on their property investment? It will take two for Rehab to hand over the keys to their business.
I fully expect that we are going to see more density-adding projects in this area over the next several years. Not only is the whole Sarah corridor kind of beefing up just to the north, but we will also soon see work on the Tower Grove Connector that will bridge the Central West End, The Grove, and Tower Grove Park. Its path is 100 feet from 4100 Manchester and Rehab.
Well you seem excited about the prospect, and I think we disagree. I'm not here to advocate on behalf of the owners of Rehab, I'm saying that it would be a loss for the neighborhood and the queer community for it to close.
Vibrant neighborhoods are made up of buildings of all different sizes that serve different needs. Something that Jane Jacobs wrote about was how newer buildings tend to house chains while older buildings are more likely to be home to small businesses because of the difference in rents. I don't think tearing down as many 1-2 story buildings along Manchester as possible for development is a good thing. There are still numerous parking lots and vacant lots on the street at the very least that should be developed first imo.
I wouldn't say that I'm excited about it -- and I definitely see the value that Rehab and other LGBT institutions add to the area.
I just noticed that the proposed building looks like it was designed with potential for expansion onto the Trop Liqueurs lot. If the idea to go vertical exists on the two-story lot next to this building, I think it's pretty natural to wonder where else the developers may have a vision.
Keep in mind, this is the same developer that is going to completely remake a few blocks in Downtown West.
I love the design, but I think razing the Attitudes building would be a bad decision. It's a historic, iconic building that housed the city's oldest gay bar for a long time. Arguably, the Grove doesn't exist as it is now if not for Attitudes. Let's focus first on filling the hole in the ground across the street and all the empty lots/buildings further east on Manchester.
^Agreed. I know I sound like a broken record sometimes, but I just can't support this when there's so many empty lots nearby. It's an okay project, but not earth shattering and there's plenty of space that needs to be filled before we begin tearing down even merely okay buildings, let along historic and rather cute ones.
I too am in support of the "highest and best use" (i.e. density) here, but the existing building is quite charming, and wish that this could either be done the "facadism" way, or that the proposed building could be constructed on any number of the vacant lots close by.
It’s understandable to be excited about a well-designed mid-rise investment in density but that pink building conveys way more depth, character and history.
Why don’t our preservation review districts have more strict guidelines (also thinking about that demo going on at Delmar) ?
How about it should really be a non-starter that an intact vintage or historic building be demolished while there are underused lots in the district.
And then it should be a given that facade preservation should be the next go to….
They haven't applied for a demolition permit yet.
Seems tough to put into ordinance "if there are vacant lots, parking lots, or buildings less than X years old nearby, demolition permits are forbidden, don't even think of wasting people's time with a proposal."
