41 Lindell Apts 4120 - 4144 Lindell

framer · PostSep 21, 2019#12019-09-21T22:57+00:00

Here's something to keep an eye on. A 1.5 acre site at 4120 - 4144 Lindell is up for sale. The listing agent says:

“These properties offer potential buyers the chance to gain a foothold in the highly attractive Central West End/Midtown markets with proximity to the CORTEX Innovation District, St. Louis University, and the BJC Medical Complex,” said Finney. “There is potential for a developer to come in and purchase all three properties and create a really dynamic live-work-play opportunity.”

https://www.timesnewspapers.com/westend ... be99b.html

urbanitas · PostSep 21, 2019#22019-09-21T23:34+00:00

^This will be interesting. With all of the development nearby, increasing land values all around, and with that whole stretch of Lindell being so ridiculously low-density and yet such an easy opportunity for retail, I am amazed more isn't being developed here.

framer · PostSep 22, 2019#32019-09-22T01:33+00:00

Is this within the form-based-code area? If so, what are the guidelines for the site?

DTGstl314 · PostSep 22, 2019#42019-09-22T06:01+00:00

It appears that 4140 Lindell (ABNA Engineering building) - which sits between 4120 and 4144 and directly in front of 4130 - is not included in the sale. So the site would be a U-shaped parcel surrounding 4140 Lindell to the east, south, and west.

urbanitas · PostSep 22, 2019#52019-09-22T08:45+00:00

framer wrote:Is this within the form-based-code area? If so, what are the guidelines for the site?

Yep. That site is designated Boulevard Type 1.
Current Central West End Form-Based District Regulating Plan (pdf)
Building Envelope Standards for that type start in Section 3-27 (page 64):
Central West End Form-Based District (Ordinance 69406) (pdf)

wabash · PostSep 22, 2019#62019-09-22T13:02+00:00

12 story height maximum. Same as Citizen Park.

urbanitas · PostSep 22, 2019#72019-09-22T19:39+00:00

OT, but I did not realize until now that most of the CWE north of Lindell is not included in the CWE Form Based District, e.g. Maryland Ave. and North Euclid. That area needs it as much, if not more.

wabash · PostSep 22, 2019#82019-09-22T21:53+00:00

I don’t think the neighborhood really wants to encourage additional development along Maryland and N. Euclid and therefore probably has little interest in issuing a FBC for those stretches.

There’s much more tolerance/interest in accommodating development south of Lindell generally.

Olive would make sense though.

urbanitas · PostSep 23, 2019#92019-09-23T22:24+00:00

wabash wrote:I don’t think the neighborhood really wants to encourage additional development along Maryland and N. Euclid and therefore probably has little interest in issuing a FBC for those stretches.

There’s much more tolerance/interest in accommodating development south of Lindell generally.

Olive would make sense though.

I don't think the FBC encourages development. If anything, it would be the opposite.

wabash · PostSep 23, 2019#102019-09-23T22:49+00:00

^In that case they’ve been an epic failure at discouraging development in the southern half of the CWE and in the Grove.

urbanitas · PostSep 23, 2019#112019-09-23T23:07+00:00

And to be more specific, by "Maryland Ave.", I was thinking of 3 properties in particular: Straub's, West End Terrace Apartments, and that massive parking lot behind the NE corner of Maryland / Euclid, although there are several properties on Maryland near Schnuck's itching for redevelopment too.

And by North Euclid, I meant the three or four on both sides of Euclid, around McPherson, and north to Delmar, which desperately needs both development and a Form-Based Code. There are well over a dozen very large surface lots in this area, and many smaller grass lots, as well as a lot of built properties that should be redeveloped at some point.

All of these properties should be in a Form-Based District.

stlgasm · PostSep 23, 2019#122019-09-23T23:22+00:00

The Central West End Historic District covers the portion of the neighborhood in the 28th Ward (north of Lindell), and has much more stringent development guidelines in terms of height and density.

Map of CWE Historic District:
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/departments/planning/cultural-resources/documents/central-west-end-historic-district-map.cfm

We all remember the fiasco that ensued when Opus originally proposed a 22-story tower on the corner of Lindell & Euclid (pre Citizen Park)- the CWE Historic District residents went BANANAs, fearing increased traffic and shadows cast over their properties. The uproar ultimately killed that proposal. The portion of the CWE in the 17th Ward (south of Lindell) is much more liberal in regards to new development.

urbanitas · PostSep 23, 2019#132019-09-23T23:33+00:00

wabash wrote:^In that case they’ve been an epic failure at discouraging development in the southern half of the CWE and in the Grove.

I did not say that that was the purpose of a Form-Based Code, but it definitely makes development more difficult, and construction more expensive, so I don't know how anyone could believe it encourages development. Having said that, I guess I can imagine that some irrational, screaming NIMBYs could see it that way, which is likely why the well-connected property owners in the gated neighborhoods kept those parts of the CWE out.

PostSep 23, 2019#142019-09-23T23:58+00:00

stlgasm wrote:The Central West End Historic District covers the portion of the neighborhood in the 28th Ward (north of Lindell), and has much more stringent development guidelines in terms of height and density.

Map of CWE Historic District:
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/departments/planning/cultural-resources/documents/central-west-end-historic-district-map.cfm

We all remember the fiasco that ensued when Opus originally proposed a 22-story tower on the corner of Lindell & Euclid (pre Citizen Park)- the CWE Historic District residents went BANANAs, fearing increased traffic and shadows cast over their properties. The uproar ultimately killed that proposal. The portion of the CWE in the 17th Ward (south of Lindell) is much more liberal in regards to new development.

An Historic District has a different purpose, though, and there is no reason why the two can't overlap, as (by that map) they already do in some places around Lindell. And that still leaves large areas of the CWE north of Olive and McPherson with no guidelines at all.

wabash · PostSep 23, 2019#152019-09-23T23:59+00:00

Not just screaming NIMBYs, it’s a pretty widely held understanding that FBCs encourage development. Hence Joe Roddy implementing them in his ward and making it home to potentially more development that the rest of the city combined.

chriss752 · PostNov 30, 2020#162020-11-30T17:46+00:00

Garrison Companies of Kansas City is planning a 254-unit apartment building here. Still early on in the process though. It leaves the 4140 Lindell building out of nit since that was not for sale. B+A Architecture of Kansas City is the architect.

It has the name "41 Lindell" right now.

framer · PostNov 30, 2020#172020-11-30T17:52+00:00

Nice! I hope the materials are better quality than it looks in the renderings, though.

urban_dilettante · PostNov 30, 2020#182020-11-30T18:06+00:00

that's way too cheap and ugly given the amount of demolition they're proposing. and why does everything have to be so monolithic? this should be two separate strucutures—one on either side of 4140.

quincunx · PostNov 30, 2020#192020-11-30T18:12+00:00

Parcels

urban_dilettante · PostNov 30, 2020#202020-11-30T18:15+00:00

^ ugh. that is weird and dumb parcelization.

quincunx · PostNov 30, 2020#212020-11-30T18:20+00:00

Check out Delmar and Kingshighway for some weirdness

bwcrow1s · PostNov 30, 2020#222020-11-30T18:47+00:00

Uninspired. We're getting roped into density desire with any semblance of design thrown out the window.

sc4mayor · PostNov 30, 2020#232020-11-30T18:48+00:00

Nice to see another big development proposed...but damn, maybe get a new architect, maybe a local firm. The color and materials look like garbage compared to the rest of the CWE.

Also agree with u_d about the monolithic-ness of it. They should do some of what Expo is doing on the south side of their new building by FP/DeB with the stepped facade.

chriss752 · PostNov 30, 2020#242020-11-30T18:54+00:00

This is still early on.

The design can, and most likely will, change once feedback from the neighborhood gets in. Plus, me posting this publicly means that the developer sees the comments by people. So I'm not too concerned at this point by the design because I have a good feeling it will change as time goes on.

One thing to note, which I found interesting, there's a parking minimum of 1 space per unit here. So this project is matching 1.02 parking spaces per unit. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. The parking minimums are listed in the CWE Form-Based District.

wabash · PostNov 30, 2020#252020-11-30T19:06+00:00

254 units and no structured or surface parking? Yet another example of the bar being raised for land-use in the CWE.