urbanSTL

A major factor is purely perception and some reality when it comes to crime. Our reputation is putrid nationally. Crime exaggerated or not is what comes up when you search St. Louis. Crime, #1 murder capital and all that BS needs to be fixed. High profile crimes like we’ve had recently are killing us. From England to India, STL is a dangerous place to outsiders. Why come here when there are so many other options in the US.!?

We as a community need to demand change. Why do I never hear about fixing the great divorce from local leaders? It is a non-existent topic. The City and County do not want to combine or this would be a topic on the forefront. Fixing our broken government is at the root of the problems.

The.n we have to stop the divisions and start working together for common goals even if we have different beliefs. We all love this place and choose to be here. There are lots of reasons for that, mostly good. Look at all of the pride on 314day. How can we bottle that up and work together to save our city?!

EW Gateway told us in 2011. Didn't listen.

Focusing development incentives on expanding retail sales is a losing economic development strategy for the region. The future of sales taxes as a principal source of revenue for local governments should come into question for several reasons: its inherent volatility; the likelihood of a long-term restructuring of retail trade; increasing level of sales taxes discourages spending and local sales in favor of non-taxed internet sales; and, the motivation this tax source provides to focus scarce tax dollars on incentivizing a type of development that appears to yield very limited regional economic benefit. As local governments come under increasing fiscal stress, the impacts of billions of dollars in forgone revenue will become increasngly apparent.

DogtownBnR wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2024

^ Now that all being said, the key is adding jobs. We have great amenities, great history and lots of thinks that 'hot cities' have. We do not have a capital city, beaches, mountains, a famous music scene like Nashville. We need to attract jobs and companies. While employment figures are up, it is not enough to bring up the population numbers. I see these massive battery, car and manufacturing plants going in places like KS, TN and SC. We need to figure out how to attract those jobs here. We are not getting our fair share. KC is going to greatly benefit from the battery plant going in an hour away. We need this type of investment to maintain our population and ability to thrive. I know this stuff is obvious, but it can't be repeated enough!

Jan 2024 this region had more jobs than ever before in its history. 

Yeah, I'm really surprised to see an actual drop in population. I know we've been growing at a snail's pace, but at least we were growing.

It's really quality of life issues. Until St. Louis has a respectable downtown and invests heavily into North St. Louis and poor areas of North St. Louis County it will not grow.

^That seems to be the reality we are facing here in Missouri. Compete for jobs or die!

The largest driver of Metro StL population decline is Illinois residents rushing for the exits.

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:

dweebe wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2024

DogtownBnR wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2024

^ Now that all being said, the key is adding jobs. We have great amenities, great history and lots of thinks that 'hot cities' have. We do not have a capital city, beaches, mountains, a famous music scene like Nashville. We need to attract jobs and companies. While employment figures are up, it is not enough to bring up the population numbers. I see these massive battery, car and manufacturing plants going in places like KS, TN and SC. We need to figure out how to attract those jobs here. We are not getting our fair share. KC is going to greatly benefit from the battery plant going in an hour away. We need this type of investment to maintain our population and ability to thrive. I know this stuff is obvious, but it can't be repeated enough!

All "right to work" states.

Want to attract those jobs here? Screw the unions.

It’s really sad to see people say things like this. You know Unions are the reason you get to enjoy a weekend, minimum wage, and overtime, right? You know unions are responsible in large part for eradicating child labor, right?

And you realize thousands of people died so that you can enjoy these things you take for granted, right? Or have you never heard of the Ludlow Massacre, the various massacres during the RR strike of 1877, the Bay View Massacre, the Thibedeuax Massacre, the Pullman Massacre, the Lattimer Massacre,and the list goes on and on and on.

What a disgraceful thing to say. You should be ashamed.

I think you can acknowledge the historical impact of unions and still debate their impact in the present day in terms of RTW.

That said, the data on the impact of a RTW state vs a non RTW state is not clear at all when it comes to job growth. There are so many other factors driving those numbers on the states mentioned above.

We do know for certain the positive impact of unions from an economic equality perspective, and for that reason I am supportive.

Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2024

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:

dweebe wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2024

All "right to work" states.

Want to attract those jobs here? Screw the unions.

It’s really sad to see people say things like this. You know Unions are the reason you get to enjoy a weekend, minimum wage, and overtime, right? You know unions are responsible in large part for eradicating child labor, right?

And you realize thousands of people died so that you can enjoy these things you take for granted, right? Or have you never heard of the Ludlow Massacre, the various massacres during the RR strike of 1877, the Bay View Massacre, the Thibedeuax Massacre, the Pullman Massacre, the Lattimer Massacre,and the list goes on and on and on.

What a disgraceful thing to say. You should be ashamed.

I think you can acknowledge the historical impact of unions and still debate their impact in the present day in terms of RTW.

That said, the data on the impact of a RTW state vs a non RTW state is not clear at all when it comes to job growth. There are so many other factors driving those numbers on the states mentioned above.

We do know for certain the positive impact of unions from an economic equality perspective, and for that reason I am supportive.

I tend to agree with this take. Minnesota had seen brisk growth over the last 50 years or so and they have higher taxes, regulations, etc. than Missouri. It's also and extremely cold place with no mountains, beaches, interesting topography, etc. but they invest heavily into education and infrastructure. If Missouri were invested into services like Minnesota does, we would see double digit growth in no time.

DogtownBnR wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2024

^ Now that all being said, the key is adding jobs. We have great amenities, great history and lots of thinks that 'hot cities' have. We do not have a capital city, beaches, mountains, a famous music scene like Nashville. We need to attract jobs and companies. While employment figures are up, it is not enough to bring up the population numbers. I see these massive battery, car and manufacturing plants going in places like KS, TN and SC. We need to figure out how to attract those jobs here. We are not getting our fair share. KC is going to greatly benefit from the battery plant going in an hour away. We need this type of investment to maintain our population and ability to thrive. I know this stuff is obvious, but it can't be repeated enough!

A sand bar on the river is basically a beach…. If you squint a little

dweebe wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2024

DogtownBnR wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2024

^ Now that all being said, the key is adding jobs. We have great amenities, great history and lots of thinks that 'hot cities' have. We do not have a capital city, beaches, mountains, a famous music scene like Nashville. We need to attract jobs and companies. While employment figures are up, it is not enough to bring up the population numbers. I see these massive battery, car and manufacturing plants going in places like KS, TN and SC. We need to figure out how to attract those jobs here. We are not getting our fair share. KC is going to greatly benefit from the battery plant going in an hour away. We need this type of investment to maintain our population and ability to thrive. I know this stuff is obvious, but it can't be repeated enough!

All "right to work" states.

Want to attract those jobs here? Screw the unions.

Right, because West Virginia has boomed so hard since they passed RTW in 2016.

32,502 housing units have been built in Metro St.Louis since start of 2020 and since 2020 Metro St.Louis lost 25,000 people.  

In same time frame metro KC built 41,000 housing units and gained 25,000 people.

Since Jan 2020- STL Metro has added 27,000 jobs and KC metro 30,000 jobs (since bottoming out in April 2020; STL +210,000 jobs and KC + 165,000) so, either STL metro didn't lose 25,000 people since 2020 or KC didn't gain 25,000 or its somewhere in between

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Mar 19, 2024

32,502 housing units have been built in Metro St.Louis since start of 2020 and since 2020 Metro St.Louis lost 25,000 people.  

In same time frame metro KC built 41,000 housing units and gained 25,000 people.

Since Jan 2020- STL Metro has added 27,000 jobs and KC metro 30,000 jobs (since bottoming out in April 2020; STL +210,000 jobs and KC + 165,000) so, either STL metro didn't lose 25,000 people since 2020 or KC didn't gain 25,000 or its somewhere in between

Something doesn't seem to add up. for housing units this would imply a notable decrease in household size.

In terms of jobs either workforce participation in working age adults increased noticeably (which is opposite of national trends) or the methodology is picking up 2nd jobs and there is a noticable increase in people taking 2nd jobs.

Would note a lot of data since 2020 has been less accurate than before. One other possibility is decrease in non-working age population. Would imply significant decrease in number of children since the retired population is likely higher due to large numbers of boomers retiring.

These numbers imply a combination of strange demographic situations and/or inaccuracy in data.

I don't pay much mind to the Census estimates. They've been extraordinarily inaccurate for the last 20 years and I don't have reason to believe they are getting any better at it. The 2020 Census showed they were off by over 500,000 people in their estimate of NYC. 

That doesn't mean I don't think we should be concerned about trends that could contribute to population loss like North City's decay, converting housing units to airbnbs, the city schools, etc but I think the Census estimate is just leading people to panic rather than work on anything productive. 

The demographic trend that should worry St. Louis: The rapid decline in student enrollment

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... phics.html

^ Thanks for posting.  Probably a real concern in a lot of places while other areas have pulled people away from more costly coastal regions as Cali (people going to NV, AZ or CO) and or northeast (people going to Carolinas, GA, and FL,), etc.    

Don't have a good story to link to at the moment but believe a big job growth overall for the county is how much immigration has plays into the job numbers and the regions who fair better in attracting them will have a leg up in providing a labor force.    Of course, I think it is ironic that people that push against immigration the most are the ones who need them to keep Social Security and Medicare afloat for the foreseeable future unless something changes on tax rate or cut in benefits or both.

I don’t understand why people are just discovering this issue, it’s been coming for a long time. We’ve known that fewer people were born after 2000, especially 2005 and on it’s a big drops off.  This will also impact colleges and eventually the workforce but we can at least fix that part with massive immigration

Ultimately, it's more than a "warm body for a warm body" number swap in a spreadsheet and some sort of numbers game. Countries and Cities and Neighborhoods are a reflection of the people who live there.

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Apr 25, 2024

I don’t understand why people are just discovering this issue, it’s been coming for a long time. We’ve known that fewer people were born after 2000, especially 2005 and on it’s a big drops off.  This will also impact colleges and eventually the workforce but we can at least fix that part with massive immigration

The falling birth rate is definitely not unique to St. Louis.

In 2020, the national general fertility rate was down 15.9% from its average over the decade ending in 2010, with 10 states experiencing reductions exceeding 20%.