urbanSTL

Yes, I also voted for Prop A sales tax. Like others, their is very distinct differences between Prop A and Amend 7

1) Prop A is a local tax targeted specifically to address Metro budget concerns and provide specific funding source for transit expansion in the county/city. That was the biggest reason I voted yes

2) Taxing districts on a small scale like TDD, TIF's and so on won't cut it for Metro as a whole.

3) MO Statehouse won't raise one of the lowest gas taxes in the nation to maintain one of the largest road network in the country nor explore the idea of tolls for I-70/I-44 lane expansions even when some of the most conservative states have made use of tolling as part of their infrastructure mix.

Amend 7 is and will be about rebuilding I-70 and I-44 and the respective feeder freeways likes of I270 and I170. Outside of the city, I think it will only support the metro region to sprawl and build more infrastructure without any economic GPD growth and or population growth to support. Same issues will have to be addressed in 10 years when this tax expires.

The metro region is stagnant and Missouri's rural region has its fair share of poverty. Amend 7 will do little or nothing to encourage growth outside of the city. Which is one more sad commentary from a Statehouse that is unwilling to make hard decisions such as increasing the lowest of the low gas and cigarette taxes, expand Medicaid, tax online sales, reform corporate tax code, lower corporate taxes and clean up the mess of the multiple state tax credits.

quincunx wrote:Smart ad. Doesn't mention any details of the proposal other than the money only goes for transportation, doesn't say tax increase. Simple - roads are broken, makes a values play, you can fix them by taking action and vote yes, especially if you want emergency vehicles to get to you.

A kid munches on a candy bar in the back seat of a minivan. Cut to same kid eating another candy bar in the seat ona different day, slightly fatter this time. Cut again. Then the door to the minivan opens. He steps out, and then suddenly clutches his chest. He collapses on the grass, and several healthy, laughing kids ride their bikes past on the sidewalk behind his body.

"AMENDMENT 7 WILL KILL YOUR KIDS"

dredger wrote:^ I'm kinda confused on that one too, the statehouse refuses to tax online sales yet it is ready to let voters decide to increase sales tax that is collected through the brick and mortar mom and pop MO stores.

I wonder if there's a bit of "I can avoid taxes by going online, roads will be paid for by those other less-sophisticated schmucks" involved. Otherwise, I dunno.

Actually, Amazon is dodging two bullets on this one, because if the gas tax was raised, amazon's gas guzzling delivery system would have to pay for the roads it destroys.

Here is the real money quote. Where he makes the no on 7 people's argument look like Swiss cheese

Ross Nichols, director of governmental affairs for the Missouri Trucking Association, said the criticism is widely off-base and unfair.

“We may not be contributing as companies (to the sales tax), but we certainly are as individuals,” Nichols said. Nichols pointed that every industry in the state uses Missouri roadways and to single out the trucking industry “as not paying their fair share” is misleading to the public.

“It irks me a lot when people bring that up,” Nichols said. “We do not dispute that our industry damages Missouri’s roads more than personal vehicles, but we also pay 40 percent of the established taxes already. We pay our fair share.”

Is there anyone on this forum who has been convinced by Db to vote yes on amendment 7?

Actually, 40% might not be that much. It's rather easy to take a statistic like that totally out of context.

After seeing percentage the trucking industry pays in other states, as well as what percentage of the damage is caused by the trucking industry, and then we can actually see if the no on 7's argument has holes in it. I really don't appreciate your constant misrepresentation of statistics without any context in order to play them off as facts dbinSouthCity. It doesn't help your argument.

Is there anyone on this forum who has been convinced by Db to vote yes on amendment 7?

Maybe the fear mongering has gotten to some people.

To be honest, I am not sure how I am going to vote, mostly due to conversations with MoDoT people at the public forum event. Every time DB says something misleading, I am pushed towards the No camp.

Please show what that I've said is misleading? Just because you do not agree with something, it doesn't mean it's misleading.

It's clear this is a hopeless no vote.

imran wrote:Is there anyone on this forum who has been convinced by Db to vote yes on amendment 7?

I have never tried to convince anyone to vote yes. All I've done is research various things and mostly presented them in numbers. And expressed my own opinions and once a while proven why others opinions were wrong

Would Nichols advocate for significantly subsidizing railroads given that a lot of the state's industries use them?

Is that 40% of gas taxes or 40% of the total state transpo spending? Remember a lot of driving happens on non-state streets and roads that are funded other ways and thus the gas taxes paid by that driving go up to the state.



With the Amendment 7 sales tax that 40% goes down. Is that fair just because?

And there's the absolute idiocy of leaving money on the table from consumers in other states whose goods travel through Missouri.

I am voting yes because this is the best chance within the next few years to start to progress on real transit projects. Highway projects will proceed one way or the other. After the passage of this amendment I am still supportive of an increased gasoline tax as I believe the tax reduces an overall driving mindset.

tech840 wrote:I am voting yes because this is the best chance within the next few years to start to progress on real transit projects. Highway projects will proceed one way or the other.

That's not necessarily true. If this round fails, they'll likely try to find another funding mechanism for transportation in the spring or next year. Voting no could move the conversation to something that better serves Missourians.

After the passage of this amendment I am still supportive of an increased gasoline tax as I believe the tax reduces an overall driving mindset.

If this amendment passes, included in it will be a ban on raising the gas tax until the sales tax sunset in ten years.

I drove from St. Louis to Kansas City (and back) this weeekend. The pro-Amendment 7 folks are pounding the radio waves hard in all 3 major radio markets along I-70 (KC, CoMo/JeffCity, and STL) with radio ads. In addition, there are several billboards along I-70 urging a "yes" vote on Amendment 7.

Worried this might pass. Has there been any polling?

How was the highway?

I see banner ads on this website. "Better roads and bridges. More jobs."

dbInSouthCity wrote:

imran wrote:Is there anyone on this forum who has been convinced by Db to vote yes on amendment 7?

I have never tried to convince anyone to vote yes. All I've done is research various things and mostly presented them in numbers. And expressed my own opinions and once a while proven why others opinions were wrong

all you've presented are numbers produced by the agencies that are promoting the amendment. and you've not presented a single argument against the amendment. your "analysis" is pretty clearly biased, which is expected i guess; didn't you say you work for one of those agencies? MoDOT?

quincunx wrote:How was the highway?

I-70 between STL and KC is in good condition. There are several bridges that need to be selectively replaced, but routine maintenance on the highway seems adequate.

There was not too much congestion this weekend. I was only forced to do under the speed limit once on my round trip due to a traffic stop on the side of the highway. The main issues with I-70 congestion are because of bad drivers (e.g. someone doing 5 under the speed limit in the passing lane, ridiculous speeding [15+ mph over], occasional heavy truck traffic, etc.).

My personal opinion is that Amendment 7 is a net negative for St. Louis, and that raising the gasoline tax and/or tolling are much better solutions (in addition to sane transportation planning more generally).

Voting no because 40% is less than 90%.

Tolling and gas tax would do much more to reduce congestion than adding lanes to I-70 and other roads.

This amendment might provide some paltry funding to transit projects, but it's also going to expand the concrete money suck that is our road system and make it harder to fund transit in the future.

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that this amendment will pass. Rich people want more sales taxes. Q.E.D. The only question is whether they make it permanent in 10 years to fund another income tax cut, or if they increase it to fund a bigger income tax cut.

It's boring to hear but I'm of the belief that we don't have a revenue problem, we have a money management problem. I can ALMOST get tricked into voting yes on this but my faith in government is completely blown and I'm voting no.

I don't think it will pass. Republicans will overwhelming vote no for any sort of tax increase and it seems that Democrats are split on this issue.

The ads are going hard after that homespun Missouri crowd though. The trick might work, who knows.

Randy wrote:
Worried this might pass. Has there been any polling?

Piece from stl today about it
Pro side feels good
No on 7 feels good based on comment sections in newspaper.

http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-a ... touch=true

I heard a pro tax radio commercial by CMT this morning.

Paid by CMT? If so they seem to be going all in on this

My house got direct mail from both sides today. Have to say the yes side was a bit more convincing.

^ Can you snap a photo of each and post it, interested to see whats on those.