It’s pretty fun to think about this taking off. St. Louis region getting a nationally or even internationally competitive resort.
Would be a spectacular wedding event space for families from KC and STL with Amtrak. Imagine vacation/resort trains leaving downtown and Kirkwood for Washington and Hermann.
I'd prefer 18 holes, but Rees Jones is a great architect. The Jones family responsible for some of the great courses around StL including Bellerive, Old Warson, and The Legends. Rees has designed many great courses and been entrusted with re-designing some of the finest courses in America including The Counrty Club in Brookline, Mass, the Atlanta Athletic Club, Torrey Pines, Cog Hill, Oakland Hills CC, and Beth Page Black.
Im in the same boat as you with 18… BUT I do think 12 is a good size if you aren’t worried about logging a round for your handicap and just having fun, especially on a hot summer day. 18 holes takes a long time and can really eat up a day. I’ve heard multiple people I’ve golfed with say 12 is a good number. There is a course in central Illinois somewhere that will let you golf in 6 hole increments. 6, 12 or 18. I think it’s an interesting concept.
Its interesting to see a decent population of people poking fun of Missouri Wine so abruptly on Twitter in regards to this expansion... My wine pallet isn't as good as my beer, but I've had some pretty solid wines at Chaumette, Claverach, and a few others... and I get the sweet wines aren't "great" - I agree there. But the gist I get... after speaking with people at the wineries is that maybe the "better" wines (the Norton grape I thought was impressive) they make just aren't their most popular wines and so they just don't make enough of it. Feels maybe like a demand problem?
I'm betting there's someone on this forum that has some more knowledge about this than I do... curious if anyone has a more robust take?
This whole thing seems like some drug money laundering operation spin off of Ozark. This Florida couple helicopters in to Missouri with $125m to burn
David Hoffman was born and raised in Washington, Missouri, that area is close to his heart. In the recent articles, he mentioned that he attempted to buy one of the wineries 20 years but couldn’t make it work. This is not a new idea, he’s been thinking about this a long time.
I’m sure people made fun of Argentina wines at one point.
Regarding grapes, one of the vineyards he acquired is not commercial but research or ‘experimental’ for lack of a better word. IIRC, he wants to create a Cabernet grape suited for Missouri climate and soil. If they can do that…
Its interesting to see a decent population of people poking fun of Missouri Wine so abruptly on Twitter in regards to this expansion... My wine pallet isn't as good as my beer, but I've had some pretty solid wines at Chaumette, Claverach, and a few others... and I get the sweet wines aren't "great" - I agree there. But the gist I get... after speaking with people at the wineries is that maybe the "better" wines (the Norton grape I thought was impressive) they make just aren't their most popular wines and so they just don't make enough of it. Feels maybe like a demand problem?
I'm betting there's someone on this forum that has some more knowledge about this than I do... curious if anyone has a more robust take?
Its as good as any non-west coast produced wine in the US.
Its interesting to see a decent population of people poking fun of Missouri Wine so abruptly on Twitter in regards to this expansion... My wine pallet isn't as good as my beer, but I've had some pretty solid wines at Chaumette, Claverach, and a few others... and I get the sweet wines aren't "great" - I agree there. But the gist I get... after speaking with people at the wineries is that maybe the "better" wines (the Norton grape I thought was impressive) they make just aren't their most popular wines and so they just don't make enough of it. Feels maybe like a demand problem?
I'm betting there's someone on this forum that has some more knowledge about this than I do... curious if anyone has a more robust take?
Personal perspective here.
My in laws are from Northern California and my mother in law I would call a bit of a wine snob (she probably would agree). We went to Hermann for a weekend and she went into it with the idea that she wouldn’t like any wines from Missouri. She ended up being surprised that she found some decent and drinkable. Now they won’t be confused with west coast wines but I think almost anyone can find a type or two they can enjoy. Some even use imported grapes from out west and just bottle them here. No one in our party liked Norton, but to each their own.
I’d also imagine if you are going to put together a destination like this you are going to have at least a handful of none local wines available for those that just can’t do Missouri wine.
With very dry wines like Norton and also more fruity wines, Missouri has created some very nice blends. Hermansberger, Assemblage, and Alluvian are 3 blends I like. Also like any Chamburcin.
The Hoffman companies bought the Defiance "biker bar" Terry & Kathy's in the last two weeks. The locals are pissed as apparently the first rule they're imposing is No Smoking inside the bar.
I thought I'd ask about Missouri wines because I really don't know much about them and I'd like to know more.
The vast majority of Missouri wines that I have ever tasted were sweet fruit wines that puckered my face and left me dissatisfied. Where in Missouri, specifically in eastern Missouri near Hermann and Augusta, could I find a tasty dry red wine?
Any suggestions?
Hoffman seems to believe that he's going to be able to make fantastic reds with his new venture, and I hope that's true. But I also hope it's true that there are existing reds that hit the spot.
Honestly, a much bigger fan of Ste Gen and other bootheel wines than Hermann/Augusta. Most have a good chambourcin. Skip Crown Valley though. River Ridge just south of Cape makes a nice chambourcin as well.
My worry is that there just aren't many Missouri wines I will be able to get into.
And that's fine. Perhaps Hoffman changes that. I hope he can.
I'll look for the Stone Hill chambourcin.
Robller has some good ones. That’s probably the place that has the most I like. I can’t deal with sweet. Wife’s side is from California so pretty snobby about wine and they seemed to like some of their wines. I have a chambourcin and a rose from there.
Stone hill had a couple okay ones. We bought a bottle or two from there. Looks like we have a Vidal blanc from there.
Ferigno's in St. James used to have a few nice dry wines, but at the time I was going there regularly I was more of a dry white guy. I know they had a red, and I think it was at least okay, but I wouldn't want to give it too strong a recollection on vague memories from *mumblemumble* years ago in some previous century or other. I'll have to check out the Chambourcins and Ste Gen offerings.
I've always liked Augusta Winery's Norton (they used to call it Cynthiana). They usually do a Reserve version and a regular version. In my experience that wine is dry and pairs pretty well with red meat, etc. like you would expect. Also, I have kept bottles for many years and it seems to age well.
Back in March, I asked about dry red Missouri wine, knowing nothing about local wine.
I still don't know all that much about Missouri wine, but my wife and I have tried a handful of Nortons, Chambourcin, and Missouri red blends that we've really enjoyed. Stone Hill probably has my favorite Norton.
We've visited a few wineries, too.
We went to Augusta Winery a few weeks ago and enjoyed a tasting there. I'm interested to see how the Hoffman plans pan out for that area. The town of Augusta already feels it has had a touch of investment since the last time I passed through, maybe a year or two ago. I suppose that's to be expected if the goal is to have significant wine tourism for the Augusta AVA.
Hoffman has been extremely bullish about the potential for high-quality wines coming out of the Augusta region. I wonder if his intention is to raise the profile of Missouri's homegrown Nortons, Chambourcins, Seyvals, Chardonels, etc., or if he intends to grow grapes that are more popular nationally, or both?
Will he be establishing his own wine brand in Augusta? Or just puppeting the existing winery brands that he purchased?
You might try some nice red blends. They usually don’t reveal the mix but I can guess Norton with Chambourcin in the right proportion. Current favorite is Hellbender by Stone Hill. Hermannsberger is their other nice dry red blend.
