I don't get why local business boosters don't play-up our enormous resources of fresh water. 

I'm still pissed that Tesla chose to build an enormous manufacturing plant smack in the middle of a freaking dessert. I know, I know, solar power; but it's still gonna consume massive amounts of water. Every manufacturing process does; hell, just the daily water needs of their employees must be huge. 

And now Google is getting ready to build a giant data center in Mesa, Arizona, where it's projected that it will consume as much as 4 millions gallons of water a day. 

"Google Data Centers’ Secret Cost: Billions of Gallons of Water":

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/goog ... 53765.html

Building cities in the desert is one of the dumbest things we've done as a civilization

The unregulated use of aquifers out west is going to bite these communities in the butt over the next 100 years. Aquifers are not exactly renewable.

One of my favorite quotes is from the Jim Jarmusch movie Only Lovers Left Alive.  It's in reference to Detroit, but it's applicable to any number of cities:

"There's water here; when the South burns, this place will rise".

quincunx wrote: ↑

Apr 01, 2020

Building cities in the desert is one of the dumbest things we've done as a civilization

My firm has a long standing contract with Saudi Arabia for city planning- Few guys in the office are thinking about taking a 2 year municipal planner job in a new desert city over there.  They throw ridiculous amount of money at people to take this assignments and housing allowance

chaifetz10 wrote: ↑

Apr 02, 2020

Honestly, my wife and I have thought about proactively doing the same.  Two years with having money thrown at us would really help put some dents into our student loans...

2 guys in the office did it few years ago, they liked it a lot.  their spouses/family got to go too and they negotiated paid trips back home  twice a year.  its really a 1 year deal but after year 1 they offer a $25,000-50,000 bonus to stay for year 2 

"Climate change: US megadrought 'already under way'"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/climate-chan ... 53804.html

One of the dumbest things we've done as a civilization is build cities in the desert.

Someday we'll hear about diverting water from the Missouri.

How about live where there's water nearby?

^The second dumbest thing we've done is build a ton of our new housing in flood plains.

Ranking high, maybe first, is spreading out our places so everyone is coerced to drive and other choices are impractical. That ties into the floodplain development  since the spreading out puts pressure to take the risk of developing there.

The thought of diverting Missouri River water had never occurred to me. I have no idea how much may already be diverted, but I could see where some of the desert states could be eyeing it. Already, the State of Missouri is suing to stop a pipeline plan in North Dakota:

https://www.thedickinsonpress.com/news/ ... g-droughts

It would be extremely stupid to throw the money away on the infrastructure to do such a thing. Live where there is water. 

framer wrote: ↑

Sep 10, 2020

The thought of diverting Missouri River water had never occurred to me. I have no idea how much may already be diverted, but I could see where some of the desert states could be eyeing it. Already, the State of Missouri is suing to stop a pipeline plan in North Dakota:

https://www.thedickinsonpress.com/news/ ... g-droughts

I think one of the reservoir projects included an allotment for Eastern North Dakota farmers having water rights as well.  It has been dream of ND to build the canals and pipelines to irrigate large swaths of the region using Missouri River water but the state hasn't funded its share, hasn't had the political pull to get Federal funds appropriate to pay for it outright and believe in recent years they have been on the wetter side for Eastern North Dakota so most federal funds appropriated recently have gone towards flood protections projects in and around Fargo/Grand Forks/in the Red River Valley.   

My two cents from my brother in law who used to farm potatoes in ND both in the dry waiting on rain (near Grand Forks) and via irrigation (near Minot) and some family connection & farmland in both West and Eastern ND

But, but, humidity ! The humanity ! To be fair, there is some comfort gained by a low humidity environment, but it still gets hot and you will need to cool it. You can use A/C but a swamp cooler is also an option, but that uses water. There are pros and cons, but i'm inclined to think that being near the water is best because then you are not taking water from places that don't have a lot to begin with, i.e. the Colorado River does not reach the ocean anymore.

duckman wrote:But, but, humidity ! The humanity ! To be fair, there is some comfort gained by a low humidity environment, but it still gets hot and you will need to cool it. You can use A/C but a swamp cooler is also an option, but that uses water. There are pros and cons, but i'm inclined to think that being near the water is best because then you are not taking water from places that don't have a lot to begin with, i.e. the Colorado River does not reach the ocean anymore.

Speaking of the humidity... thank god we have it or we’d be looking like the west coast right now. It is a pro that the dry-heaters never consider.


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The fight over Missouri River water has been going on for probably twenty years now. Probably longer, really. There's been a consistent fight with navigational interests and lower basin agricultural interests on one side and recreational and upper basin agricultural interests on the other. And environmental interests and the Army Corps caught somewhere in the middle. Upper basin states want water retained in reservoirs over the dry season to permit irrigation and enable recreation on upper basin lakes. Lower basin states want an extended late summer and fall navigation season to make getting crops to market cheaper. And fish want to spawn and birds want to nest and they like sand bars and shallow pools and big fat seasonal floods. Yes. Even here there are water fights. Every time I go out west I think about that. And in spite of that . . . I water my wife's vegetables with our water so cheap you can't even meter it. Come on down here folks. We have your water. And we have affordable pretty brick houses and trees that aren't on fire. Just stay out of the flood plain for Chrissakes. And don't build illegal levies that flood your neighbor.

Anyway . . .

And with all that tension over the water currently think about soon Denver wanting some.

While not Denver, a guy named Pat Mulroy suggested water from the Mississippi be diverted to the Colorado River. I've said it before, but the west cannot support all the people that want to I've there. Neither before or after climate change.

One small correction here: Pat Mulroy is female. Also, her ideas have had zero support since she started tossing this idea out back in 2011. Her job was (is?) to promote economic growth of Las Vegas, so this is nothing more than a pipe dream (pun intended) to get LV more water.

"Water shortages in US West likelier than previously thought"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/water-shorta ... 26984.html

framer wrote: ↑

Dec 08, 2020

" Water joined gold, oil and other commodities traded on Wall Street, highlighting worries that the life-sustaining natural resource may become scarce across more of the world . . . Farmers, hedge funds and municipalities alike are now able to hedge against -- or bet on -- future water availability in California, the biggest U.S. agriculture market and world’s fifth-largest economy".

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/wate ... 01275.html

Meanwhile, an average of more than 200,000 cubic feet of fresh water flows past St. Louis every second. We need to capitalize on our strengths. 

Let's bottle it and sell to California!