urbanSTL

Don’t expect any news here this year

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

6:29 PM - May 27

Don’t expect any news here this year

I really hope this isn't one of those projects that languishes for years. This is an important one that deserves to be properly preserved.

dbInSouthCity wrote:Don’t expect any news here this year

That’s discouraging. If this were in the CWE this probably already would’ve been converted into a luxury hotel with ground floor retail

Hopefully the wait is worth it, and we get a great project that reimagines the 70s complex around the Wainwright building

Idk about that, CWE has like half a dozen prominent sites with starts and stops over the last 5 years

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

9:22 PM - May 27

Idk about that, CWE has like half a dozen prominent sites with starts and stops over the last 5 years

Starts and stops were new construction.  Existing stock is pretty well picked through and nothing sitting empty waiting to get started that I can think of.  Red Cross would be the only one.  Engineers Club and Optimist wont be redeveloped they are only suitable for tear down with new infill.  

^That isn't an opinion that's universally held, which is why projects on both those sites have started and stopped within the last five years. The old Frisco Hospital is also sitting empty, though I expect you'd also say that's only suitable for demo. It's because of that attitude that we really need to make sure the Wainright gets redeveloped. There are any number of heretics who would say it's only suitable to be demolished. People have said the same things about plenty of buildings that have been redeveloped (Union Station), and plenty more that we're still angry about (the Arena.) One of the things that really got this forum going was a fight to preserve the San Luis apartments in . . . wait for it . . . the Central West End. Buildings that were torn down for no better purpose than surface parking.

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

4:51 AM - May 29

^That isn't an opinion that's universally held, which is why projects on both those sites have started and stopped within the last five years. The old Frisco Hospital is also sitting empty, though I expect you'd also say that's only suitable for demo. It's because of that attitude that we really need to make sure the Wainright gets redeveloped. There are any number of heretics who would say it's only suitable to be demolished. People have said the same things about plenty of buildings that have been redeveloped (Union Station), and plenty more that we're still angry about (the Arena.) One of the things that really got this forum going was a fight to preserve the San Luis apartments in . . . wait for it . . . the Central West End. Buildings that were torn down for no better purpose than surface parking.

Quite the contrary. If you go back and read my posts, you'll see that I've consistently advocated for saving Frisco Hospital and the buildings AHM plans to demolish for its Morganford project. St. Louis's historic architecture is one of our greatest competitive advantages, and we should preserve it whenever possible.  Railway Exchange, Wainwright, Chemical Builiding, AT&T, Lemp, and countless other need to be.  

That said, there has to be a balance. Not every building makes sense to save, especially when redevelopment remains economically unfeasible even with historic tax credits, tax abatements, and other subsidies. Cities have to evolve, and appropriate infill development particularly in neighborhoods that can support greater density should be encouraged.

I've personally looked at both the Engineers Club and the Optimist International building. Both have significant structural issues that make redevelopment financially impractical. At some point, we have to ask whether it makes sense to prevent a nonprofit from selling its property and allow a building with little realistic redevelopment value to sit vacant indefinitely, rather than enabling new investment and continued urban growth.  Optimist has and several credible developers who would have executed on the proposal had they had the opportunity.  

Preservation is important, but it shouldn't come at the expense of every opportunity for productive redevelopment.

^We're getting off topic. I'm not actually trying to accuse you of calling for the demolition of anything save Engineers and Optimists. We can agree to disagree there, I hope.

STLcommenter tried to make a point about Wainright relative to the Central West End. DB said there were "like a half dozen" prominent sites in the area sitting idle. You attempted to disagree with him by saying the thing only had new build struggling, but you yourself listed two buildings struggling to find adaptive reuse. I named a third. Had I been thinking I should also have listed two more: Reliant Automotive and Third Baptist. And I'd swear there's at least one more. And sadly, I expect you'll be able to add the old Temple Israel to the list very soon.

I'm sorry if I touched a nerve pushing back against demo of Engineer's Club and Optimist. I was reacting in frustration as I'm quite fond of the Engineer's Club for reasons that are complicated to explain, and I perhaps overstepped a bit.

If you can forgive that, I think DB's basic point was correct: some buildings are complicated to redevelop, and being in a popular neighborhood is no guarantee that a thing will get done quickly. I hope something happens with Wainright quickly. Maybe it would have slightly better odds were it elsewhere, but there are plenty of counterexamples that suggest it might not; that maybe the complexity of the project is more important. And I can easily believe Wain-o will be a complicated building to fix. (Yeah, yeah, no relation. Still.) It's a very old office building with some very odd modifications, and given the state's track record I wouldn't be at all surprised to find there's a lot of deferred maintenance. That may be more important than the perceived popularity of the location.

This is the most architecturally/ historically significant building in St. Louis. No chance it’s getting demo’d. I haven’t kept up with this. How long has it been vacated?’

no chance of demo? who guarantees it wont?

If anyone proposed a demolition of the Wainwright Building, you’d see such a massive pushback from locals, government officials (local, state and federal) and others. It’s pretty much protected at this point. Today’s preservationists are much different than those in the past and many are in government.

I sincerely hope you're right and that it gets redeveloped quickly. My biggest fear isn't really that someone wants to demolish it, but that it will sit empty and decay with everything that implies.

It's not like the land it sits on is particularly valuable either way and demolitions cost money. If this was in Downtown Chicago I would be more worried.