urbanSTL

Good news is i've spoken to the chair of CVC about the front of garage mural 

How many years does that garage have left?

Speaking of downtown parking garages, the latest LCRA agenda (8/25/26) contains a resolution authorizing a contract for the demolition of the Locust/Tucker garage. 

The parking structure at the southeast corner of Tucker and Locust has been determined to be significantly deteriorated and obsolete to the point of which demolition is the only viable option. Prior to issuing a request for bids to procure a demolition contractor, professional engineering and survey services are necessary. The structure is connected to an adjacent building with which it shares access to an elevator, a non-vacated alley circumvents the garage, and underground utilities and other facilities are unknown. LCRA wants to ensure that if the parking structure is demolished that damage to adjacent or underground assets is minimized. A survey is also necessary to identify property boundaries, rights-ofway, and easements impacting the site.

Unfortunately, as I believe we already knew, there are no plans to switch up the land use (a new parking structure is planned):

LCRA seeks authorization to issue an RFP to procure a parking consultant to prepare a feasibility study for a potential new parking structure to be constructed as a replacement for the 476-space structure located at the southeast corner of Tucker and Locust owned by LCRA. This study will evaluate the feasibility of a new structure based on demand analysis including revenue projections, construction cost estimates, and operational cost projections.

stldotage wrote: ↑

3:28 PM - 4 days ago

Speaking of downtown parking garages, the latest LCRA agenda (8/25/26) contains a resolution authorizing a contract for the demolition of the Locust/Tucker garage. 

The parking structure at the southeast corner of Tucker and Locust has been determined to be significantly deteriorated and obsolete to the point of which demolition is the only viable option. Prior to issuing a request for bids to procure a demolition contractor, professional engineering and survey services are necessary. The structure is connected to an adjacent building with which it shares access to an elevator, a non-vacated alley circumvents the garage, and underground utilities and other facilities are unknown. LCRA wants to ensure that if the parking structure is demolished that damage to adjacent or underground assets is minimized. A survey is also necessary to identify property boundaries, rights-ofway, and easements impacting the site.

Unfortunately, as I believe we already knew, there are no plans to switch up the land use (a new parking structure is planned):

LCRA seeks authorization to issue an RFP to procure a parking consultant to prepare a feasibility study for a potential new parking structure to be constructed as a replacement for the 476-space structure located at the southeast corner of Tucker and Locust owned by LCRA. This study will evaluate the feasibility of a new structure based on demand analysis including revenue projections, construction cost estimates, and operational cost projections.

Likely because they're anticipating the use from the new AC Marriott and the ground floor businesses across Tucker at J.A.

Hopefully a new parking garage includes retail space and they make it visually appealing.

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Anyone check out Flotsam Circus on the riverfront.?

Saw it Sunday night and it brought a great energy downtown.

More please

Kind of a not great video of Frank the Tank doing his daily walk downtown StL since he was throwing the first pitch and it looks like there’s nobody out besides a guy sleeping on the street outside abandoned Orhpeum Theatre (that the city just lets rot). He talks about how there’s no bustle and it surprises him. I don’t think he is really trying to be mean or anything either, I think it just looks like reality. Makes me sad

His walk videos get a number of views too regularly


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delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

4:29 PM - 1 day ago

Kind of a not great video of Frank the Tank doing his daily walk downtown StL since he was throwing the first pitch and it looks like there’s nobody out besides a guy sleeping on the street outside abandoned Orhpeum Theatre (that the city just lets rot). He talks about how there’s no bustle and it surprises him. I don’t think he is really trying to be mean or anything either, I think it just looks like reality. Makes me sad

His walk videos get a number of views too regularly


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When there isn't a game or event, as of August 2026, I'd argue that downtown Clayton (because it's smaller, has lesser disorder bullsh*t, doesn't have the degrading infrastructure issue, etc) has a superior vibe than downtown STL.  Unless you love old architecture, downtown Clayton just seems nicer.

I take no pleasure in writing that but downtown STL is basically an albatross on the whole region.  Tourist think it represents STL as a whole. so, we get sh*t like Frank's video.  (sad face emoji)

soulardx wrote:

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

4:29 PM - 1 day ago

Kind of a not great video of Frank the Tank doing his daily walk downtown StL since he was throwing the first pitch and it looks like there’s nobody out besides a guy sleeping on the street outside abandoned Orhpeum Theatre (that the city just lets rot). He talks about how there’s no bustle and it surprises him. I don’t think he is really trying to be mean or anything either, I think it just looks like reality. Makes me sad

His walk videos get a number of views too regularly


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When there isn't a game or event, as of August 2026, I'd argue that downtown Clayton (because it's smaller, has lesser disorder bullsh*t, doesn't have the degrading infrastructure issue, etc) has a superior vibe than downtown STL.  Unless you love old architecture, downtown Clayton just seems nicer.

I take no pleasure in writing that but downtown STL is basically an albatross on the whole region.  Tourist think it represents STL as a whole. so, we get sh*t like Frank's video.  (sad face emoji)

Not sure how anyone could argue against this. Especially during workdays, Clayton feels like a vibrant business district with white collar workers walking around and every national chain you would expect in a midwestern downtown. Meanwhile, Downtown STL feels like a desolate ghost town.

As much as the “Detroit turnaround” is kind of fake, you can’t understate how important a vibrant and thriving downtown is to the perception of a city. The way people talk about Detroit is completely changing now that they have a solid downtown. The hits from people like Frank will just keep on coming until we actually fix downtown.

STLcommenter wrote: ↑

9:41 PM - 1 day ago

soulardx wrote:

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

4:29 PM - 1 day ago

Kind of a not great video of Frank the Tank doing his daily walk downtown StL since he was throwing the first pitch and it looks like there’s nobody out besides a guy sleeping on the street outside abandoned Orhpeum Theatre (that the city just lets rot). He talks about how there’s no bustle and it surprises him. I don’t think he is really trying to be mean or anything either, I think it just looks like reality. Makes me sad

His walk videos get a number of views too regularly


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When there isn't a game or event, as of August 2026, I'd argue that downtown Clayton (because it's smaller, has lesser disorder bullsh*t, doesn't have the degrading infrastructure issue, etc) has a superior vibe than downtown STL.  Unless you love old architecture, downtown Clayton just seems nicer.

I take no pleasure in writing that but downtown STL is basically an albatross on the whole region.  Tourist think it represents STL as a whole. so, we get sh*t like Frank's video.  (sad face emoji)

Not sure how anyone could argue against this. Especially during workdays, Clayton feels like a vibrant business district with white collar workers walking around and every national chain you would expect in a midwestern downtown. Meanwhile, Downtown STL feels like a desolate ghost town.

As much as the “Detroit turnaround” is kind of fake, you can’t understate how important a vibrant and thriving downtown is to the perception of a city. The way people talk about Detroit is completely changing now that they have a solid downtown. The hits from people like Frank will just keep on coming until we actually fix downtown.

Yep - preaching to the choir on this board. Not arguing so much.
I now fear social media posts from all the folks coming into town from for the Foo Fighters & AC/DC show. 

I took a trip to downtown Clayton because I had to pick up some paperwork at STL County police HQ, parked about a block and a half away, "vibrant business district" is not exactly what I'd call Clayton at all. It feels basically as desolate as downtown, but with somewhat nicer infrastructure. One of the GLARING problems with STL is that neither Clayton or downtown can be a proper downtown to a city of STL's size.

This has been gone over to death on here and it's not very hard to understand, downtown is how it is because our business sector does not care. Downtown STL could be totally fixed within a few years if a handful of big businesses put in the effort, but they won't and do not care. Literally nothing the city can do about it. How did Detroit fix downtown? It had a billionaire and its business sector put in the effort.

I do think the newly repaved/rebuilt roads, traffic infrastructure, and bike infrastructure will make downtown feel much more like a modern city, but these are things every city was doing 10-15 years ago while we sat on our hands.

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StlAlex wrote: ↑

11:16 PM - 1 day ago

I took a trip to downtown Clayton because I had to pick up some paperwork at STL County police HQ, parked about a block and a half away, "vibrant business district" is not exactly what I'd call Clayton at all. It feels basically as desolate as downtown, but with somewhat nicer infrastructure. One of the GLARING problems with STL is that neither Clayton or downtown can be a proper downtown to a city of STL's size.

I haven't chimed in with the out of towners' perspective in a bit, but I would 100% agree with StlAlex that "vibrant" isnt the word to describe DT Clayton.  I feel like it is a great example of what a suburban downtown could be, but when I went it absolutely felt like a place where everything closed at 5.   It's clean and well kept up but doesn't feel anymore like the center of things than Downtown Stl does.  
I think the CWE is the most vibrant area of the metro but isn't on the itinerary for people who are visiting because they don't know it's there and assume Downtown would be where all the action is. I think a stronger tourist base that included more hotels/restaurants/attractions on the westside would probably have more of a spillover effect for the rest of the metro than development in either "actual" downtowns would, unfortunately a lot of the immediate area is taken up by gated neighborhoods that limit development.  
I don't know if the current decentralized nature of the metro will ever let a real, singular "Downtown" district exist again, but maybe something like Atlanta's Downtown -> Midtown-> Buckhead Corridor except with DT ->CWE -> Clayton would be the best option moving forward.  

Hot takes galore! 

Spending in Downtown STL beats Clayton 5 to 1, and if you take out the spending at sports stadiums industry code, its 4 to 1,  its 10 to 1 vs CWE 
Cardinals game today ended at 4pm, at 8:30 katies was packed, as was sports and social, salt and smoke, the taco place and Kevin Nashans new restaurant....3/4 of mile west all 4 main restaurants at union station packed, as was Sen Thai, Sugerfire, Aubergine, Buddys, Mizu, Over/Under and Hi Pointe on Wash Ave. So wants the issue? As its been for a while, the office  middle. 

and the office middle doesnt get fixed until ATT, Railway, Chemical, Wainwright and Kiener Garages get done and they will get done but it wont be open until 2030. 

If you remove the office middle and push the others together, all the sudden is the most vibrant area between here and Chicago. 

Spending at Union Station is +13%  this year,  Downtown Hotels are +11% through June. Ballpark Village was +8% after +24% last year despite 800,000 less at cardinal games 

dbInSouthCity wrote:Hot takes galore! 

Spending in Downtown STL beats Clayton 5 to 1, and if you take out the spending at sports stadiums industry code, its 4 to 1,  its 10 to 1 vs CWE 
Cardinals game today ended at 4pm, at 8:30 katies was packed, as was sports and social, salt and smoke, the taco place and Kevin Nashans new restaurant....3/4 of mile west all 4 main restaurants at union station packed, as was Sen Thai, Sugerfire, Aubergine, Buddys, Mizu, Over/Under and Hi Pointe on Wash Ave. So wants the issue? As its been for a while, the office  middle. 

and the office middle doesnt get fixed until ATT, Railway, Chemical, Wainwright and Kiener Garages get done and they will get done but it wont be open until 2030. 

If you remove the office middle and push the others together, all the sudden is the most vibrant area between here and Chicago. 

Spending at Union Station is +13%  this year,  Downtown Hotels are +11% through June. Ballpark Village was +8% after +24% last year despite 800,000 less at cardinal games 

I don’t think anyone is under the impression Clayton has more spending than Downtown. Clayton and the CWE are much nicer urban areas than downtown however.

Agreed with your identification of the “office middle” as the major issue hurting downtown. I’m glad you’re confident about those big projects getting done in the not so distant future. If that can happen, downtown will start to feel completely different.

Also, what is the area more vibrant than downtown between here and Chicago? There’s not really much in between the two cities anyways. Champaign?

In other news it appears more certain that KMOX and its sister stations will move to Clayton even though daytime talk show hosts do nothing but praise downtown.

https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... 848b18bf78

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matguy70 wrote:And if Hoffman moves them... it will be because his company owns a Clayton building already and it houses his STL operations already.
But the media will say "another media.outlet moves out of downtown"

And I will say it's just another billionaire who's unserious about making STL better.

Though the BJ article said that they are considering another downtown location and staying at Park Pacific in addition to Clayton.

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Remember when we were explicitly told that if Cara were to be elected that major players in the business community would return to downtown? 

Yup still waiting on that business community commitment…really have shown us all!


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i don't remember being explicitly told that. can you provide a primary source?

I think the more streets we can move into the blue, the better. That's what CWE has that parts of Downtown lack. Downtown wins the architecture game all day. I am pointing to the streetscape alone. Wash Ave and the OPOP are my favorite parts of downtown, and they scored the strongest in street frontage. 

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

1:45 PM - 1 day ago

i don't remember being explicitly told that. can you provide a primary source?

Source: Clark's mouth

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

1:40 AM - 1 day ago

Hot takes galore! 

Spending in Downtown STL beats Clayton 5 to 1, and if you take out the spending at sports stadiums industry code, its 4 to 1,  its 10 to 1 vs CWE 
Cardinals game today ended at 4pm, at 8:30 katies was packed, as was sports and social, salt and smoke, the taco place and Kevin Nashans new restaurant....3/4 of mile west all 4 main restaurants at union station packed, as was Sen Thai, Sugerfire, Aubergine, Buddys, Mizu, Over/Under and Hi Pointe on Wash Ave. So wants the issue? As its been for a while, the office  middle. 

and the office middle doesnt get fixed until ATT, Railway, Chemical, Wainwright and Kiener Garages get done and they will get done but it wont be open until 2030. 

If you remove the office middle and push the others together, all the sudden is the most vibrant area between here and Chicago. 

Spending at Union Station is +13%  this year,  Downtown Hotels are +11% through June. Ballpark Village was +8% after +24% last year despite 800,000 less at cardinal games 

Thank you for the data, Baghdad Bob/Downtown Denis. LOL

All of that may be true, but I'm mostly talking *vibes.*.   The feeling that you are in a (relatively) vibrant/safe/upcoming space.  Clayton has it. Downtown STL doesn't.

I'm not MAGA nor a Trump fan, but like what he did in DC. Similarly, I'd put the National Guard on every main corner in DT STL/CWE/Soulard/The Grove/etc during every warm weather weekend day/night and during every event.