urbanSTL

dweebe wrote: ↑

8:56 PM - Jan 14

This is what we'll get, because it's all we deserve.

Some people here are so negative. That must be such a hard way to live life.

I think they'll do a good job! I think the airport will be very cool and nice.  A lot of people will work very hard on it. They will do their best based on a limited budget and managing different opinions from different stakeholders (none of which are necessarily wrong!).  

I bet at the end of this my opinion will be that its mostly done really well, some things could've done better - but maybe I don't fully understand why some tradeoffs need to be made because I've never built an airport - and the people who spent years working on it should be proud of their work. But to each their own.

I bet at the end of this my opinion will be that its mostly done really well
“Everyone will find what he's looking for. Nothing pleases everyone: this man gathers thorns, that one roses.”

― Petronius, The Satyricon

dweebe wrote: ↑

8:56 PM - Jan 14

This is what we'll get, because it's all we deserve.

Looks like plenty of room for seating..

You’ll get this and nobody cares what it looks from
the outside

Found these details in a @flystl concessions RFP

British Air will fly out of T2

April 2027 - Airlines will move from A concourse to D/C

April 2029 - airlines will move from C/D to new terminal

March 2031 - Southwest moves into new terminal.

Some dated info there on Lufthansa weeklies

What's the latest on Enterprise at the airport? 

matguy70 wrote: ↑

4:28 AM - Jan 13

He chuckled when he talked about KCs airport. He said they just "had" to spend 35 million on 30 some glass jetways that have already had window glass "failures" and costly upkeep and cleaning. He said that the airport director "wanted them" so they could be one of the only US airports with them. He said... you spend 3 to 4 minutes in those things - who cares about your experience there! He honestñy said... they got screwed with and industrial looking building with glass jetways attached. LOL

I don't disagree with KC getting a value-engineered terminal compared to what was originally planned (see below), but I have to say, I really appreciate the glass jetbridges. They make boarding and disembarking a much less claustrophobic experience. He's entitled to his opinion, but I think they add a lot to the airport experience. 

Asim is definitely in the know on this and if what I’ve heard is correct he is not understating how much of a change it will be from expected. Like total redesign change. Not in a good way.

Start here with expectations and you’ll be fine

jshank83 wrote:

Asim is definitely in the know on this and if what I’ve heard is correct he is not understating how much of a change it will be from expected. Like total redesign change. Not in a good way.

WN pulling back further or is building just that expensive?

addxb2 wrote: ↑

10:47 PM - Jan 16

jshank83 wrote:

Asim is definitely in the know on this and if what I’ve heard is correct he is not understating how much of a change it will be from expected. Like total redesign change. Not in a good way.

WN pulling back further or is building just that expensive?

Building is something like 70% over budget.

jshank83 wrote:

addxb2 wrote: ↑

10:47 PM - Jan 16

jshank83 wrote:

Asim is definitely in the know on this and if what I’ve heard is correct he is not understating how much of a change it will be from expected. Like total redesign change. Not in a good way.

WN pulling back further or is building just that expensive?

Building is something like 70% over budget.

I’m going to guess renovated domes/entrance. Demo of terminal B. Updates on A, C, and maybe D. Expansions on Terminal A and C.

I'm trying to stay optimistic since Portland spent $2.1 Billion on it's aiport and it's been praised for it's beauty and functionality. Hopefully we can get something half as nice with our projected $3 Billion budget. Let's pray the innflation we're experiencing won't give us a subpar product, but there is really no way it can be any worse than what we currently have. HOK is a world class firm and I'm sure they'll deliver a good product, even if budgets are constrained. 

jonkleinow wrote:

matguy70 wrote: ↑

4:28 AM - Jan 13

He chuckled when he talked about KCs airport. He said they just "had" to spend 35 million on 30 some glass jetways that have already had window glass "failures" and costly upkeep and cleaning. He said that the airport director "wanted them" so they could be one of the only US airports with them. He said... you spend 3 to 4 minutes in those things - who cares about your experience there! He honestñy said... they got screwed with and industrial looking building with glass jetways attached. LOL

I don't disagree with KC getting a value-engineered terminal compared to what was originally planned (see below), but I have to say, I really appreciate the glass jetbridges. They make boarding and disembarking a much less claustrophobic experience. He's entitled to his opinion, but I think they add a lot to the airport experience. 

KC’s new terminal ended up being like 30-50% larger (in terms of sqft) than that pre-design image you included. When they had a construction website up there were real designs with taller ceilings and more glass than what got built. The glass boarding bridges are nice to look at and nice to look out from. The default option in Europe / MEA / Asia these days. How much nicer of a terminal does $30 million really even buy if the building was $1.5 bn?


If St Louis could just consolidate T1 TSA, renovate the existing concourses in phases, expand T2 baggage claim and TSA, and rebuild the connector between T1 and T2, I think that’d be a fine alternative.

I don’t have all the details, but AT THE MOMENT what I still assume happens.

Everyone is out of T2
A and B still get demoed. And the new terminal is built in place of them like planned. I assume C goes also but I am not as confident in that.

What I don’t know.
How many gates the new terminal will have but I don’t think there is any way it’s 62 at this point. If that’s the case how do they supplement the gates they still need from the current setup. I don’t think they want to keep T2 open but again I don’t really know.


I personally feel like they should build as much of a new terminal as they can afford to what they want it to be. So if it’s 40 gates build 40. Keep C/D intact for the other gates they need. Then they can expand down the road.

Can we incorporate a data center to help pay for it?

quincunx wrote: ↑

12:55 AM - Jan 17

Can we incorporate a data center to help pay for it?

That is the outside the box thinking we need. T2 becomes a data center

The concourse is going to be a long, rectangular box. That's just what you get with that budget, even if you build fewer gates in the initial phases and then wait for more funding, airlines already have spots reserved. I think 60ish is a fair guess. By far the most significant challenge in this entire project is the incorporation of the domes. We all want high ceilings and an open-air feel, but that will dwarf the domes. Maybe there is a way architecturally to create a unique design that complements the domes to the side? The drawback is that it's more expensive than building a box.  Building in front of the domes seems silly. Why would you hide them if you want that as an arrival experience?  I think there is also a way to simplify and condense the arrival and departure lanes. These technical things will be well thought out and will definitely be improved. I also don't understand why they wouldn't be able to have a rental facility. You are already redoing the roads and garage. Overall, the design will probably be mediocre, but the program will definitely be world-class, which is ultimately what matters for the airport.

Is there access to state funding for this?

You'd think the state would want to chip in on its top GDP producing region's airport..

bwcrow1s wrote:Is there access to state funding for this?

You'd think the state would want to chip in on its top GDP producing region's airport..

Local governments don’t really spend $ on terminal projects. Roadways, etc yes they do.

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑

6:40 PM - Jan 17

Is there access to state funding for this?

You'd think the state would want to chip in on its top GDP producing region's airport..

There was some, 15ish million, in the budget for demo of the national guard building. But the Gov took it out when he signed it.