We could do worse than simply eliminating every interstate highway inside of city limits. Let them all stub out into the city, but force through traffic to take 270/255? The 44/55 interchange was essentially the ancestral home for my mom's side of the family. One of my great uncle's literally had a filling station over it. (And the family church was the old St. Lucas that burned a few years back. My sister married into the family of the pastor there, now at the new St. Lucas on Morganford.) I am one of the Bohemians of the late lamented Bohemian hill. You want to burry that interchange, either literally or figuratively? Be my guest.
Don't think there is much hope in digging tunnels to bury these highways. Maybe they could eliminate the on/off ramps at the exchange; it's complicated enough without. I would even remove the 7th street onramp. People getting on at the 7th cut across 3 lanes to go south on 55 in like 1/4 mile while poplar bridge and 70 traffic are still merging.
The on ramp from Truman/Lafayette going to 55-S has been closed for years now, and it's been fine. I would argue that the adjacent off ramp from 44E, and the loop exit off 44W are both redundant too. Would like to see them all replaced with development that can provide a less terrible walking experience on Lafayette and Gravois.
The on ramp from Truman/Lafayette going to 55-S has been closed for years now, and it's been fine. I would argue that the adjacent off ramp from 44E, and the loop exit off 44W are both redundant too. Would like to see them all replaced with development that can provide a less terrible walking experience on Lafayette and Gravois.
I agree as someone who lived near this for 6 years. It's a true head scratcher. You have access to 44 4 blocks down at Jefferson, and at 55, just down the street at Russell. We don't need ramps every 4-6 blocks.
Problem is that I don't think MoDot really cares even if it lightens its load on the maintenance rolls.
Here is my concept of what tightening up the I44/I55 interchange could look like. The area in the white dash could be completed without removing any bridges or any major changes to the interstates themselves, but removes the Gravois loop ramp and the I44 westbound ramp. By "capping" the interstates at the areas they are already depressed there could be development and restored street connections between Soulard, Lafayette Park, and McKinley Heights neighborhoods, while incorporating green spaces and linear parks at the portals of the caps to screen the remaining exposed interstates. The Gravois bridge could be replaced and widened to include a more gracious pedestrian experience to cross the interchange.
Also made a more radical concept where I44 and I55 are removed entirely between Vandeventer, S Broadway and the Poplar St interchange, opening up much more space for residential and mixed use development and reuniting all of the neighborhoods that were carved through. I introduced an East-West boulevard along part of I44's path that terminates at the intersections of Truman Pkwy/14th St/Tucker Blvd/Gravois Ave where a mixed use high density neighborhood could serve as the epicenter of redevelopment. I did include some potential realities that aren't as forward thinking such as moving I55 east to retain industrial connections and a N/S corridor, as well as trying to think of a way to snub end I44 around Kingshighway/Vandeventer (which gets messy). Overall it was an interesting exercise reconnecting all of the streets and imagining how this would start to heal a lot of the neighborhood continuity issues in this area!
^ this is why we need to get more people with adobe skills on UrbanSTL.
I like your concept of merging 44 with 64. Although I think it could be more realistic if you think about brining 64 down a little to create a larger interchange south of MetroLink tracks.
No way big business is going to let 44 dead end into a boulevard structure.
We could do worse than simply eliminating every interstate highway inside of city limits. Let them all stub out into the city, but force through traffic to take 270/255? The 44/55 interchange was essentially the ancestral home for my mom's side of the family. One of my great uncle's literally had a filling station over it. (And the family church was the old St. Lucas that burned a few years back. My sister married into the family of the pastor there, now at the new St. Lucas on Morganford.) I am one of the Bohemians of the late lamented Bohemian hill. You want to burry that interchange, either literally or figuratively? Be my guest.
I would definitely take a world where
i64 east ends at Skinker and parkland returns,
i64 west ends at memorial drive and turns into an at grade boulevard that continues seamlessly into current forest park parkway, i44 becomes at grade boulevard at Hampton to Gravois with development parcels to its north and south and completely removed for reconnected grid east of Gravois, i55 ends at Broadway-Cherokee (or even Loughborough) and street grid is fully reconnected, i70 ends at Stand Musial Bridge (removing i44 in front of arch)
Reminds how stupid our state is for promoting driving as much as it can. Missouri produces no oil, a whole 75 barrels a day. All that wealth leaving the state via gas tanks.
Has there been any talk of doing a complete overhaul of River Des Peres Blvd with concrete? Cause the asphalt just isn't cutting it - constant potholes and there's now an entire section of the road that's basically just dust between Gravois and Morganford.
Has there been any talk of doing a complete overhaul of River Des Peres Blvd with concrete? Cause the asphalt just isn't cutting it - constant potholes and there's now an entire section of the road that's basically just dust between Gravois and Morganford.
A concrete rebuild with wider lanes is long overdue. The original roadbed is shot under the blacktop. Pretty sure RDP Blvd was listed on City's upcoming road projects. I'm not sure what exactly is going to be done.
Too bad we can't have inkling of a long term mentality in this country. The Cites that realize road diets for overbuilt pavements will be the cities that have more sustainable infrastructure and therefore more sustainable with current tax structure. We have built so many pavement lane miles that we are barely keeping up with the road surface as it is when the reality is most freeways, highways, streets sub surface is past life cycle design even if built right the first time and truly is what is needed to be addressed on a lot of roads. But that requires money so something has to give, more taxes and or reduce lane miles but build back better.
I think St Louis is one of those cities that have an opportunity and needs to push things further. Maybe just maybe the city leadership can push to get rid of some unnecessary overbuilt freeway on and off ramps as well. No big pipe dreams are needed but a lot of things within the city control and at least some minor changes that I bet MoDOT is more then agreeable at end of day (starting with removing the ramp near city hall as example)
^I was just thinking there's no real reason to make the lanes wider. People drive too fast there as is, with potholes and narrow lanes. Better to remove a lane and add park land and better pedestrian and bicycle infrastructure along the greenway there. Yeah. Narrow it down. Repave, but repave less and better.
While I'd love for lanes to be removed, I'm just not sure how feasible it is on RDP Blvd given how car-centric our society is. It already backs up for blocks and blocks and blocks at the intersections (especially Gravois) during rush hour.
You're absolutely right about people going way faster than they should even in its current state though.
Maybe I'm not driving on it at the right times. I've rarely seen backups, and never for blocks. Occasionally I have to wait through a light cycle to make the left on Gravois when I'm driving southbound at five or six in the evening, but I think that's been about the worst of it. But I don't do it every day. My more usual routes are Broadway and Kingshighway, so maybe it's just small sample statistics. Still it rarely feels crowded to me.
^ Maybe it's not as frequent as I'm making it out to be, but I've regularly encountered SB traffic backed up from Gravois to at least Olde English Rd. and sometimes further than that, mainly between 3-6PM on weekdays. Maybe it depends on how many people try to turn left onto Gravois, but I've definitely been stuck in it on more than one occasion.
Trackless trams are a fraction of the cost and we could probably have one running the whole length of Gravois by Halloween with any real effort and brains.
St. Louis should take the lead here in US and propose a system. Fastest, best way to road diets on roads that need one.
I walked both directions last week between the Dobbs by Busch down to Soulard while I got a flat tire repaired.
South Broadway just completely angers me. So much wasted concrete. Far too much road for too little traffic. I just got angrier and angrier as I walked.
Trackless trams are a gimmick. I'd much rather just improve existing bus service with better bus stop amenities and better frequency.
Yeah I guess so maybe. I don't know, it works in some places. Although I generally support the idea, running a real Metrolink train into one the least populated "urban" areas in North America could potentially be seen as gimmicky as well especially when outsiders or newcomers who might be different aren't generally welcomed with open arms.
Trackless trams are a gimmick. I'd much rather just improve existing bus service with better bus stop amenities and better frequency.
Yeah I guess so maybe. I don't know, it works in some places. Although I generally support the idea, running a real Metrolink train into one the least populated "urban" areas in North America could potentially be seen as gimmicky as well especially when outsiders or newcomers who might be different aren't generally welcomed with open arms.
Trackless trams haven't been built outside of China because they're essentially just buses that look like trains. They incur all the same costs as buses in road maintenance and tire pollution. And they require a dedicated lane that's blocked off if you want to maximize their utility. All of this to save money on rails and overhead wires.....just make the existing bus better.
As for the Green Line, America used to build heavy rail lines into totally undeveloped areas to spur development. Some of the most in-demand places in the country are also the most transit rich (the same applies for St. Louis). The problem is that we don't have enough of them.
Trackless trams are a gimmick. I'd much rather just improve existing bus service with better bus stop amenities and better frequency.
Yeah I guess so maybe. I don't know, it works in some places. Although I generally support the idea, running a real Metrolink train into one the least populated "urban" areas in North America could potentially be seen as gimmicky as well especially when outsiders or newcomers who might be different aren't generally welcomed with open arms.
Trackless trams haven't been built outside of China because they're essentially just buses that look like trains. They incur all the same costs as buses in road maintenance and tire pollution. And they require a dedicated lane that's blocked off if you want to maximize their utility. All of this to save money on rails and overhead wires.....just make the existing bus better.
As for the Green Line, America used to build heavy rail lines into totally undeveloped areas to spur development. Some of the most in-demand places in the country are also the most transit rich (the same applies for St. Louis). The problem is that we don't have enough of them.
I guess I just prefer my busses to look like trains.
As far as Green Line, if someone can make a promise that we will replicate the success of the Wellston stop then all aboard! I often resort to a mild detachment of reality in order to survive as well. I'm human.
