What's all this talk about vacating City Hall? Is this something that the city is actually considering, or just spitballing by Forum members? Sounds really dumb to me.
It's picking your poison: another 1M sf vacant building or vacant city hall. Which one would be easier to get a redeveloped plan for?
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Spitball only. Alterra Mike put it out there as desirable as part of the mega block between 14th- Tucker and Clark - Market.
He also said several erroneous thing about the state of the city and its finances and why they should go for it.
He also said several erroneous thing about the state of the city and its finances and why they should go for it.
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I'm personally inclined to think the right thing for the federal government to do is to downsize in DC and move offices everywhere else, thus getting closer to the country the government serves. Closing offices in major cities is exactly the wrong thing, so . . . of course that's what the doge is doing. Fun fact, in the original Afarcical dialect favored by dogers doge rimes with whoosh. I think that should be made the official English pronunciation.
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80% of federal employees are outside of the DC metroplex (not just DC proper).
Don't make statements about things you are ignorant of.
But yes, closing them in the cities central to populations is dumb. So I guess we kinda agree? DC is mostly lobbyists, not bureaucrats.
Don't make statements about things you are ignorant of.
But yes, closing them in the cities central to populations is dumb. So I guess we kinda agree? DC is mostly lobbyists, not bureaucrats.
Decentralizing government (moving it away from the capital) and making hard for administrators and directors, even daily workers to communicate with eachother regarding the functioning of the government means no one knows what is going on, everyone is siloed, and the authoritarians have better control.
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^I'm not suggesting you move it all out of DC, just some of it. Not even suggesting you can't have a headquarters. Just that they don't all need to be in the same basket. Time was there were more of them elsewhere. CDC is still in Atlanta, last I checked. Defense Mapping used to be here entirely, before much of it was moved to DC. There's no particular reason more departments couldn't be moved to cities that make sense. It would make Senators from those states more likely to push back against what we're experiencing right now. It could make the entire country a bit more comfortable with a strong federal government. And it would make the government a tougher target for many sorts of threats. Okay, 80% of federal workers aren't in DC. Roughly 98% of Americans aren't in DC. Don't move it all out, but some of it might not be a bad idea. Move some departments where appropriate. Move some positions where it makes sense. And relax. I'm spitballing, not making policy for the Department of Unilateral Capital Housing Exfiltration. I'm with you that there's too much anger on this forum about now, but no need for us to be a part of it. I'm just a musician having a conversation on a forum.
It's been in bad shape for a while and needs to be fixed. I think if the city does it then it will be over budget and they would need to move out for a while anyway. I think it's a good plan to go elsewhere and try to streamline operations in a new place. Obviously the building should be stable and architecturally protected when it is redeveloped.framer wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2025What's all this talk about vacating City Hall? Is this something that the city is actually considering, or just spitballing by Forum members? Sounds really dumb to me.
Unemployment is low and most people will find something quickly but I doubt it will be as cushy as a fed job.quincunx wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2025Hate to say it, but perhaps some of the sacked fed employees could fill open positions with the city.
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City Hall needs to stay City Hall, I would however be in favor of moving the rest of the city offices to RAY and demoing 1520 Market. Political offices and public facing offices should remain in City Hall though. Perhaps use RAY as a temporary City Hall while a more in depth renovation of the real City Hall happens.
The state could theoretically move some departments there as well.
The state could theoretically move some departments there as well.
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“cushy”. You mean paid a fair wage and benefits with some time off?
What is "fair"? If people in the private sector don't get those benefits then how is it fair that their taxes pay for someone else to get better benefits? It is not the government's role to employ people.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2025“cushy”. You mean paid a fair wage and benefits with some time off?
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Many many people in the private sector in fact do get those kinds of benefits. You live in a fantasyland
Right. How many people get pensions?JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2025Many many people in the private sector in fact do get those kinds of benefits. You live in a fantasyland
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Pensions make up for forgoing larger wages that people could get in the private sector.
Stop demonizing federal and other government employees.
There is nothing virtuous about working in the private sector
Stop demonizing federal and other government employees.
There is nothing virtuous about working in the private sector
To say cushy job is insult to Federal employees as someone who works in the private world but communicates, talks directly and works with Federal employees daily. The one benefit is having a legit 40 hour work week & all the Federal Holidays off which I'm envious of (different discussion if someone thinks that their is too many holidays, which is legit also). But to JaneJacobGhost comment, a fair and reasonable wage should not be consider the basis of a cushy job.
But as far financial & other benefits, bonuses and so forth Federal employees are not compensated on same level as private sector but of course that is the trade off. Now do I agree in back to office directive? Yes, as there are Fed employee who have and abusing it and time to call them out. Do I agree that Feds probably rent too much space? Yes, on another thread I noted a few offices where it is overkill in space. Do agree Feds like private sector need to evaluate and have ability to release employees? Yes, they are getting paid to do a job not given a job. Taxpayers should demand that as well.
The reality is the US population has grown, GDP has grown, benefits to Americans has grown the last several decades and the Federal Workforce is has remain stable and flat with little or no growth. At same time we handcuff Post Office which has a huge Federal workforce from selling services that would truly make it self sufficient.
Sadly, Feds have actually done better over the last decades in controlling its workforces needs & cost then say the Techies who have grown their work forces immensely which is odd considering they are leading the charge at DOGE. Then compare Medicare and Medicaid admin fees relative to private insurance. Their is no comparison that Feds have down better for the taxpayers/for my Dad then private insurance is currently doing for my family. The focus should be on Fraud for which I wholeheartedly agree with but mass layoffs in a really really bad idea
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Idiots think that a for-profit mission inherently breeds efficiency in operations. It’s simply not true
Bring this back to the discussion about St. Louis downtown federal building. The more I think about it. City buying and moving, consolidating services there make a lot of sense and at end of day probably a good opportunity. Keep and retain City hall for the mayor and alderman.
However, we probably don't know if it is a sale and lease back of space when it comes to Federal employees themselves. But even then, City putting in a bid utilizing Rams Funds and having the building for future use is a no brainer IMO. Heck, utilize the Rams Funds in the deal to finance the removal of the freeway ramp/puchase the property as part of a greater RFP. In addition, City could can put some explicit language in the use of Rams funds that the building will only be leased back to Federal Govt and or for city employees use only. Thus eliminating or removing the perception of competing against other commercial downtown office space. Let the bids decide on who owns it but city does have an opportunity here.
However, we probably don't know if it is a sale and lease back of space when it comes to Federal employees themselves. But even then, City putting in a bid utilizing Rams Funds and having the building for future use is a no brainer IMO. Heck, utilize the Rams Funds in the deal to finance the removal of the freeway ramp/puchase the property as part of a greater RFP. In addition, City could can put some explicit language in the use of Rams funds that the building will only be leased back to Federal Govt and or for city employees use only. Thus eliminating or removing the perception of competing against other commercial downtown office space. Let the bids decide on who owns it but city does have an opportunity here.
Use Rams money to bail out the feds do Trump can act like he's shrinking the gov't and the deficit. Hard pass
If it's a sale and lease ack, then sell to a private company and it'll pay property taxes.
If it's a sale and lease ack, then sell to a private company and it'll pay property taxes.
They hilariously un-published this list after it got too much push back and attention. Actual clown world.Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Mar 04, 2025GSA has identified the Robert A. Young Federal Building as "non-core" and disposable.
https://www.gsa.gov/real-estate/real-es ... perty-list
Gee should I buy an office building or is 77M SF going to hit the market at any moment? 
They're not forgoing anything. Stop making things up. Ziprecruiter lists 100k average fed salary in MO (103k in IL) and 50.5k overall average (54k IL). On top of this they get way better benefits and insurance than the average person in MO.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2025Pensions make up for forgoing larger wages that people could get in the private sector.
Stop demonizing federal and other government employees.
There is nothing virtuous about working in the private sector
I'm not demonizing any employees or saying that private employees are better. I'm demonizing the government. They are the ones that hire too many people and pay them too much for what they're doing. A lot of companies do it too but that is at their cost.
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Prediction: it’ll return with every federal office building listed.Auggie wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2025They hilariously un-published this list after it got too much push back and attention. Actual clown world.Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Mar 04, 2025GSA has identified the Robert A. Young Federal Building as "non-core" and disposable.
https://www.gsa.gov/real-estate/real-es ... perty-list
Again, federal government has remained at about 3 million workers for the last 50 years.flipz wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2025They're not forgoing anything. Stop making things up. Ziprecruiter lists 100k average fed salary in MO (103k in IL) and 50.5k overall average (54k IL). On top of this they get way better benefits and insurance than the average person in MO.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2025Pensions make up for forgoing larger wages that people could get in the private sector.
Stop demonizing federal and other government employees.
There is nothing virtuous about working in the private sector
I'm not demonizing any employees or saying that private employees are better. I'm demonizing the government. They are the ones that hire too many people and pay them too much for what they're doing. A lot of companies do it too but that is at their cost.
1970: 2.9 million
2025: 3 million (0.3%)
Population:
1970: 204.5M
2025: 341.5M (66.9%)
Real GDP Growth:
1947-1970: 3.1%/year
1970-Pres: 3.1%/year
There's no evidence that federal employment has any significant negative effects on the economy and even less that the government is hiring "too many people".
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The State of Missouri and in many instances Illinois pay barely above poverty wages at this point. $50K isn’t sh*t anymore. Maybe Missouri government would actually function if the state started offering $100K positions for new hires.flipz wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2025They're not forgoing anything. Stop making things up. Ziprecruiter lists 100k average fed salary in MO (103k in IL) and 50.5k overall average (54k IL). On top of this they get way better benefits and insurance than the average person in MO.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2025Pensions make up for forgoing larger wages that people could get in the private sector.
Stop demonizing federal and other government employees.
There is nothing virtuous about working in the private sector
I'm not demonizing any employees or saying that private employees are better. I'm demonizing the government. They are the ones that hire too many people and pay them too much for what they're doing. A lot of companies do it too but that is at their cost.