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PostJan 27, 2025#6376

Something like the Moxy proposal would help the business at the west end of downtown proper where Simply Delicious was located. Chestnut to St. Charles blocks between Tucker and 11th are some of our more egregious parking blocks. Desperately need infill there.

^21c is awesome. Everyone should check it out. They do yoga classes in the art galleries, the cafe Good Press is pretty, and the athletic club Locust Street underground is a cool rehab of the Y facilities. You can get a day pass and go swim, workout, hit the steam room, sauna - it’s a good way to spend a winter saturday. They do memberships also.

^Railway Exchange is so sad. It really is jarring every time I walk out of Park Ave or Hayden’s and I should be used to it by now. The Gittos glazed brick building and Gill terra cotta building just sitting lonely looking like they are about to be crushed by that Godzilla of a parking garage keeps me up at night. I can’t imagine a worse living example of the damage to our built environment. I would say the guests at Hotel St. Louis and business/convention visitors probably leave with a clouded view of our city bc of Railway and the garage.

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PostJan 27, 2025#6377

Most restaurants that fail tell everyone that it was COVID's fault even though that was almost five years ago. The exception is if said restaurant is downtown, then it's easier to just say it was downtown's fault. Got to have your scapegoat handy.

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PostJan 28, 2025#6378

STLrainbow wrote:
Jan 27, 2025
It's been awhile since I've just walked around Downtown for a couple hours... it was a rather sleepy Sunday afternoon and a nice opportunity to observe both its current state as well as challenges and opportunities.  The state of the the Railway Exchange and parking garage right in the heart of the CBD is just plain sad right, so hopefully this year marks a turn for the better. Far and away should be the vacancy priority I think for downtown. Successfully executing a small biz retail plan that can help get some of these storefronts active again also would be big.

The art at the 21c Hotel was fantastic and is a great addition to the abundant Free Things to do in St. Louis CIty List.
The amount of massive parking garages sitting right in the middle of the CBD with empty storefronts is such a stain on downtown.

PostJan 30, 2025#6379

https://www.ksdk.com/article/money/busi ... 2eaa2eda1d

Business Journal looking for a new office in the city. Say they are looking for security, convenient and safe parking, and a reasonable commute time.

Apparently Ballpark Village doesn't provide this.

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PostJan 30, 2025#6380

What took them so long? They’re staff is scared shitless to be outside downtown

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PostJan 30, 2025#6381

Auggie wrote:https://www.ksdk.com/article/money/busi ... 2eaa2eda1d

Business Journal looking for a new office in the city. Say they are looking for security, convenient and safe parking, and a reasonable commute time.

Apparently Ballpark Village doesn't provide this.
I’d have to imagine the real reason is they need to downsize / cut costs.

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PostJan 30, 2025#6382

Debaliviere91 wrote:
Jan 30, 2025
Auggie wrote:https://www.ksdk.com/article/money/busi ... 2eaa2eda1d

Business Journal looking for a new office in the city. Say they are looking for security, convenient and safe parking, and a reasonable commute time.

Apparently Ballpark Village doesn't provide this.
I’d have to imagine the real reason is they need to downsize / cut costs.
They're at the co-working space. I lowkey thought that was their downsize.

Hopefully they stay downtown but we know they probably won't. Their employees decided to move out in Narnia and now are upset that their commute is 30 minutes.

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PostJan 31, 2025#6383

A different perspective on downtown:

https://www.ksdk.com/article/money/busi ... 23cddc5535

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PostJan 31, 2025#6384

whitherSTL wrote:
Jan 31, 2025
A different perspective on downtown:

https://www.ksdk.com/article/money/busi ... 23cddc5535
That's literally the standard brain dead suburban perspective that gets parrotted everywhere. Nothing different about it.

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PostJan 31, 2025#6385

Saw the leasing sign was taken down on the former Gringo space, work seems to be happening inside. Anybody have insight?

926

PostJan 31, 2025#6386



Similar size single tenant tower in Minneapolis to At&t sold with similar price discrepancy. DOOOM LOOOOP. Good for them though that it was sold for residential conversion before its got so long like our situation.

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PostJan 31, 2025#6387

Happening in Chicago too. Read an article yesterday about a building that sold at 83% discount.

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/commerc ... 2018-price

Also developers are considering the worlds tallest teardown of 311 S Wacker



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PostJan 31, 2025#6388

When people work from home, the only thing that’s left is sports for downtown. I don’t get why we don’t restructure it to be more residential in nature. That WFH genie isn’t getting shoved back in the bubble. I live way out of STL and even where I live fiber optics installs are happening. It’s another societal shift and urbanists have to make this adjustment.


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PostJan 31, 2025#6389

Fraydog wrote:
Jan 31, 2025
When people work from home, the only thing that’s left is sports for downtown. I don’t get why we don’t restructure it to be more residential in nature. That WFH genie isn’t getting shoved back in the bubble. I live way out of STL and even where I live fiber optics installs are happening. It’s another societal shift and urbanists have to make this adjustment.


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The single good thing Francis Slay did as Mayor was promote residential growth downtown. We have been growing downtown's residential population for years.

This current administration has also been focusing on downtown residential.

PostJan 31, 2025#6390

BNY Mellon Center in Pittsburgh is set to become 100% vacant in 2027. BNY announced they plan to do basically what AT&T did at 909 Chestnut.

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PostJan 31, 2025#6391

Jeez. And Pitt's US Steel tower is in danger too.

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PostFeb 01, 2025#6392

Fraydog wrote:
Jan 31, 2025
When people work from home, the only thing that’s left is sports for downtown. I don’t get why we don’t restructure it to be more residential in nature. That WFH genie isn’t getting shoved back in the bubble. I live way out of STL and even where I live fiber optics installs are happening. It’s another societal shift and urbanists have to make this adjustment.


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I’d argue companies are slowing pushing people back to the office (or quickly if you work for the Feds). Do I think it gets back to how it was, no but I am not sure I’d say it isn’t going back in the bottle.

That said I agree about more residential.

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PostFeb 01, 2025#6393

Brian Hayden, who did a couple downtown office tower-to-residential conversions before the pandemic, has the old Laclede Gas tower for sale.  He already converted much of the building to residential and was planning to add more floors, but is stepping away from that plan.  

Would be interesting to know if there are any other post-war office towers (besides 909 Chestnut) that are under serious consideration from owners to convert to residential.  

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PostFeb 06, 2025#6394

In terms of office-to-apartment conversions, St. Louis appears to lag behind just about all peer metros.  And we probably have more unused office inventory (at least downtown) than all of 'em. 

RentCafe: Office-to-Apartment Conversions to Peak at 71k Units in 2025

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PostFeb 06, 2025#6395

Maybe because we were way ahead of the game in office/commercial to apartments in the 2000s and have at least 1,100 between just AT&T and Railway. And our office vacancy rate is probably the lowest amongst peers

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PostFeb 06, 2025#6396

dbInSouthCity wrote:
Feb 06, 2025
Maybe because we were way ahead of the game in office/commercial to apartments in the 2000s and have at least 1,100 between just AT&T and Railway.   And our office vacancy rate is probably the lowest amongst peers
If only that were remotely true (it's not)...

Source: https://www.moodyscre.com/insights/mark ... ncy-rates/
CBD-and-Metro-Vac-1024x584.png (122.52KiB)
Highest-CBD-Vacancy-1024x537.png (49.39KiB)

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PostFeb 06, 2025#6397

stlgasm wrote:
Feb 06, 2025
dbInSouthCity wrote:
Feb 06, 2025
Maybe because we were way ahead of the game in office/commercial to apartments in the 2000s and have at least 1,100 between just AT&T and Railway.   And our office vacancy rate is probably the lowest amongst peers
If only that were remotely true (it's not)...

Source: https://www.moodyscre.com/insights/mark ... ncy-rates/
It fully depends on what real estate agency you're referencing.

Cushman and Wakefield Q4 2024 has the CBD at 22.7% while CBRE has the CBD at 27.1%. And then Colliers has it at 35.6%.

I personally prefer CBRE as the most reliable.

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PostFeb 06, 2025#6398

stlgasm wrote:
Feb 06, 2025
dbInSouthCity wrote:
Feb 06, 2025
Maybe because we were way ahead of the game in office/commercial to apartments in the 2000s and have at least 1,100 between just AT&T and Railway.   And our office vacancy rate is probably the lowest amongst peers
If only that were remotely true (it's not)...

Source: https://www.moodyscre.com/insights/mark ... ncy-rates/
There is a lot of misinformation on this forum as it relates to real estate and a general misunderstanding of how redevelopment and development actually works.  For example, you don't get to count two projects as conversions (AT&T and Railway) that haven't started.  

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PostFeb 06, 2025#6399

Saw the same stats and was very disappointed to see Cincy, KC, Omaha and Cleveland with such high numbers and us not to appear, when we should be at the top of this type of list, considering our downtown office market.

Is there news on Wainwright? I am hoping to see a residential conversion there.

The key is getting ahead of these as tenancy goes down in a building. I doubt many office buildings will empty out then refill with office tenants in todays age.

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PostFeb 06, 2025#6400

STLAPTS wrote:
Feb 06, 2025
stlgasm wrote:
Feb 06, 2025
dbInSouthCity wrote:
Feb 06, 2025
Maybe because we were way ahead of the game in office/commercial to apartments in the 2000s and have at least 1,100 between just AT&T and Railway.   And our office vacancy rate is probably the lowest amongst peers
If only that were remotely true (it's not)...

Source: https://www.moodyscre.com/insights/mark ... ncy-rates/
There is a lot of misinformation on this forum as it relates to real estate and a general misunderstanding of how redevelopment and development actually works.  For example, you don't get to count two projects as conversions (AT&T and Railway) that haven't started.  
The point isn’t that these should be counted as part of that chart, it’s that we will have 1100-2000 if these projects happens.

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