I wonder if GSL and the City are working to align the stars on Downtown's mega project announcements this Spring. 909 plans nearing reality, RX ownership fog will be clearing, Millennium site has a few bites with a commitment to something impactful, maybe something with Municipal Courts. If you run it along with the opening of Jefferson Arms and apartments/tower construction near City Park... a good chance to get good national press.
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I think alot of things will happen in March but don’t think it’s seriously coordinated.
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Imagine
Completing 2025-
-Jefferson Arms: 200 apartments
-Old Judge Coffee: 20 apartments
Planned -
-AT&T: 600 units
-Railway: 350 units
-Millenium: 250 units
-Two Cardinal Way: 300 units
-Chemical: 150 units (probably unrealistic hope)
-1801 Washington: 150 units (no idea the status of this prop)
+AHM in downtown west
Completing 2025-
-Jefferson Arms: 200 apartments
-Old Judge Coffee: 20 apartments
Planned -
-AT&T: 600 units
-Railway: 350 units
-Millenium: 250 units
-Two Cardinal Way: 300 units
-Chemical: 150 units (probably unrealistic hope)
-1801 Washington: 150 units (no idea the status of this prop)
+AHM in downtown west
Nearly 3,900 black people live in JeffVanderLou.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jan 22, 2025Great so why not build it where black folks actually live and not out in some ***** urban prairie in JeffVanderLou?Auggie wrote: ↑Jan 22, 2025Every time transit is built, development happens around it. Idek where you're getting the idea that that's not how it works. It's been proven time and time again that that is how it works.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jan 22, 2025
If you build it, they will come is a terrible justification for spending public dollars.
And If no one rides the northern leg (which they won’t because it doesn’t go anywhere people live or work) you will never secure funding for an expansion.
If the goal was to serve poc in under invested communities, the money spent on the northern leg of the green line would be much better used extending the south bound line all the way to Patch or building the northbound line from the CWE on Kingshighway
New TC office building too hopefullydelmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025Imagine
Completing 2025-
-Jefferson Arms: 200 apartments
-Old Judge Coffee: 20 apartments
Planned -
-AT&T: 600 units
-Railway: 350 units
-Millenium: 250 units
-Two Cardinal Way: 300 units
-Chemical: 150 units (probably unrealistic hope)
-1801 Washington: 150 units (no idea the status of this prop)
+AHM in downtown west
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It’s among the least densely populated neighborhoods in the city. Bottom 15%.Auggie wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025Nearly 3,900 black people live in JeffVanderLou.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jan 22, 2025Great so why not build it where black folks actually live and not out in some ***** urban prairie in JeffVanderLou?Auggie wrote: ↑Jan 22, 2025
Every time transit is built, development happens around it. Idek where you're getting the idea that that's not how it works. It's been proven time and time again that that is how it works.
Stark contrast to the Kingshighway route I’m advocating for which touches Visitation Park, Penrose, Kingsway West, Walnut Park West, Academy, and the CWE. All of which have at leas respectable density. Not mention a Kingshighway route directly connects employment centers in the CWE and the I-70 industrial park.
The proposed northbound green line would run through JeffVanferlou, StL Place, Hyde Park and Fairground each of which ranks among the worst in population density.
Again, this project is much more redevelopment focused. It's meant to revitalize the city.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025It’s among the least densely populated neighborhoods in the city. Bottom 15%.
Stark contrast to the Kingshighway route I’m advocating for which touches Visitation Park, Penrose, Kingsway West, Walnut Park West, Academy, and the CWE. All of which have at leas respectable density. Not mention a Kingshighway route directly connects employment centers in the CWE and the I-70 industrial park.
The proposed northbound green line would run through JeffVanferlou, StL Place, Hyde Park and Fairground each of which ranks among the worst in population density.
I just read that only half of the transit capital funds were granted in 2024, because there were not enough shovel-ready transit projects in the United States. Seattle, Minneapolis, and Los Angeles were the only cities that are actually meaningfully trying to expand their light rail systems from the list I saw. Austin has big plans but it's still in it's early planning phases, also a very political issue. Nashville opted for improved bus service and BRT. I really wish the county and city could work together. The Green Line is cool, but we could have really made a truly regional line if the region could work together and probably had a billion or more in federal dollars sent to our region with little competition. Let's just hope that Trump administration is so distracted and doesn't touch the Biden infrastructure money. The metro ceo said recently he was confident in our proposal and that really the only thing that could kill it at this point is politics. Fingers crossed.
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Its really difficult for me not to laugh at stuff like that reddit thread let alone take it seriously but here I am. Just a total fake news of a thread.
I live in KC, have lived in two other large US markets as well as additionally coming from STL and to be honest both Downtowns suck relatively speaking. However in St. Louis at least is there is something resembling a transit system and the presence of the stadiums. The other problems are pretty much identical.
Lack of corporate support, lots of empty buildings, blight, surface parking, political differences, suburban mentality of the locals. KC absolutely sucks out with the southern direction in terms of connections to other neighborhoods and even then midtown is kinda barren. The Paseo is the ghetto, NKC is disconnected by the river and the West Bottoms and SW Trafficway are virtually empty and what is there is heavily blighted except for a handful of 5 over 1s. KC is probably worse when it comes to the area being choked by highways. The Plaza in KC has been bleeding tenants recently. The streetcar is a start but its still nothing compared to Metrolink and hows it going to look if people actually have to start paying to use it? KC’s bus network might be the worst in the nation of any metro over 2m+.
DTKC is dead foot traffic wise, the Arch alone blows away much of Downtown KC combined. If people think KC is vibrant then they really need to see more of America. Some of these people would probably combust if they seen NYC or Chicago. Are we just aimlessly self loathing at this point? Has the Chiefs success brainwashed people? People are talking on that thread like KC is Denver or MSP. They must be blind to the Mayor and the Jackson County legislature basically trying to shoehorn the Royals to Downtown by any means necessary despite the fact the locals are so car brained and have prevented it to the point they will probably build way out in suburban Kansas now. To be fair, if it turns out the Royals do actually choose Downtown it may turn the tide.
The growth stats are also incredibly misleading, I often hear KC is growing and STL is dying. Most of KC’s growth is suburban sprawl outside i-435 from the rural midwest. Little is happening in the urban aspect. As far as outlook, all KC has in line as far as large new builds really is four light which is heavily subsidized whilst we will probably get 2CW and the TC Tower at BPV at some point, with the usual refurbs and smaller infill. Both cities are slow growth urban environments outside the Sun Belt. Yes, KC is too. Yeah and I see the same cliquey mentality, where did you go to high school, college, church etc. KC especially in Johnson County is heavily growing off the back of transplants from the rural midwest who bring that mindset with them.
As far as crime, it really is easy to skew an argument to suit your narrative. If you actually considered the urban parts of the KC metro. Urban KCMO south of the Missouri river and inside 435 and KCK east of 635, KC would be up there with the most dangerous cities in the country, but the sprawled out nature waters down the numbers
If we are talking peer cities where their Downtown is further along than ours, sure I’ll concede Pittsburgh or whatever, but KC, eh no. Better bbq through here though I’d say, I’ll give KC that.
I live in KC, have lived in two other large US markets as well as additionally coming from STL and to be honest both Downtowns suck relatively speaking. However in St. Louis at least is there is something resembling a transit system and the presence of the stadiums. The other problems are pretty much identical.
Lack of corporate support, lots of empty buildings, blight, surface parking, political differences, suburban mentality of the locals. KC absolutely sucks out with the southern direction in terms of connections to other neighborhoods and even then midtown is kinda barren. The Paseo is the ghetto, NKC is disconnected by the river and the West Bottoms and SW Trafficway are virtually empty and what is there is heavily blighted except for a handful of 5 over 1s. KC is probably worse when it comes to the area being choked by highways. The Plaza in KC has been bleeding tenants recently. The streetcar is a start but its still nothing compared to Metrolink and hows it going to look if people actually have to start paying to use it? KC’s bus network might be the worst in the nation of any metro over 2m+.
DTKC is dead foot traffic wise, the Arch alone blows away much of Downtown KC combined. If people think KC is vibrant then they really need to see more of America. Some of these people would probably combust if they seen NYC or Chicago. Are we just aimlessly self loathing at this point? Has the Chiefs success brainwashed people? People are talking on that thread like KC is Denver or MSP. They must be blind to the Mayor and the Jackson County legislature basically trying to shoehorn the Royals to Downtown by any means necessary despite the fact the locals are so car brained and have prevented it to the point they will probably build way out in suburban Kansas now. To be fair, if it turns out the Royals do actually choose Downtown it may turn the tide.
The growth stats are also incredibly misleading, I often hear KC is growing and STL is dying. Most of KC’s growth is suburban sprawl outside i-435 from the rural midwest. Little is happening in the urban aspect. As far as outlook, all KC has in line as far as large new builds really is four light which is heavily subsidized whilst we will probably get 2CW and the TC Tower at BPV at some point, with the usual refurbs and smaller infill. Both cities are slow growth urban environments outside the Sun Belt. Yes, KC is too. Yeah and I see the same cliquey mentality, where did you go to high school, college, church etc. KC especially in Johnson County is heavily growing off the back of transplants from the rural midwest who bring that mindset with them.
As far as crime, it really is easy to skew an argument to suit your narrative. If you actually considered the urban parts of the KC metro. Urban KCMO south of the Missouri river and inside 435 and KCK east of 635, KC would be up there with the most dangerous cities in the country, but the sprawled out nature waters down the numbers
If we are talking peer cities where their Downtown is further along than ours, sure I’ll concede Pittsburgh or whatever, but KC, eh no. Better bbq through here though I’d say, I’ll give KC that.
What are the odds that over 2,000 units are built in the next few years?delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025Imagine
Completing 2025-
-Jefferson Arms: 200 apartments
-Old Judge Coffee: 20 apartments
Planned -
-AT&T: 600 units
-Railway: 350 units
-Millenium: 250 units
-Two Cardinal Way: 300 units
-Chemical: 150 units (probably unrealistic hope)
-1801 Washington: 150 units (no idea the status of this prop)
+AHM in downtown west
I think Railway could support 650 plus apartments.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025Imagine
Completing 2025-
-Jefferson Arms: 200 apartments
-Old Judge Coffee: 20 apartments
Planned -
-AT&T: 600 units
-Railway: 350 units
-Millenium: 250 units
-Two Cardinal Way: 300 units
-Chemical: 150 units (probably unrealistic hope)
-1801 Washington: 150 units (no idea the status of this prop)
+AHM in downtown west
Extremely low. I think you either get AT&T or RWX on this next round. Probably not both.TRUESONJB wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025What are the odds that over 2,000 units are built in the next few years?delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025Imagine
Completing 2025-
-Jefferson Arms: 200 apartments
-Old Judge Coffee: 20 apartments
Planned -
-AT&T: 600 units
-Railway: 350 units
-Millenium: 250 units
-Two Cardinal Way: 300 units
-Chemical: 150 units (probably unrealistic hope)
-1801 Washington: 150 units (no idea the status of this prop)
+AHM in downtown west
Pretty sure he already signed an EO telling agencies to stop giving out Biden spending grants, which includes the infrastructure money.goat314 wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025I just read that only half of the transit capital funds were granted in 2024, because there were not enough shovel-ready transit projects in the United States. Seattle, Minneapolis, and Los Angeles were the only cities that are actually meaningfully trying to expand their light rail systems from the list I saw. Austin has big plans but it's still in it's early planning phases, also a very political issue. Nashville opted for improved bus service and BRT. I really wish the county and city could work together. The Green Line is cool, but we could have really made a truly regional line if the region could work together and probably had a billion or more in federal dollars sent to our region with little competition. Let's just hope that Trump administration is so distracted and doesn't touch the Biden infrastructure money. The metro ceo said recently he was confident in our proposal and that really the only thing that could kill it at this point is politics. Fingers crossed.
Indianapolis bus system is worse than KC's IMO. All but one line goes downtown, for example. It's unbelievably spoke and wheel. They are around 2.1 million I believe.Suburban Sprawl wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025Its really difficult for me not to laugh at stuff like that reddit thread let alone take it seriously but here I am. Just a total fake news of a thread.
I live in KC, have lived in two other large US markets as well as additionally coming from STL and to be honest both Downtowns suck relatively speaking. However in St. Louis at least is there is something resembling a transit system and the presence of the stadiums. The other problems are pretty much identical.
Lack of corporate support, lots of empty buildings, blight, surface parking, political differences, suburban mentality of the locals. KC absolutely sucks out with the southern direction in terms of connections to other neighborhoods and even then midtown is kinda barren. The Paseo is the ghetto, NKC is disconnected by the river and the West Bottoms and SW Trafficway are virtually empty and what is there is heavily blighted except for a handful of 5 over 1s. KC is probably worse when it comes to the area being choked by highways. The Plaza in KC has been bleeding tenants recently. The streetcar is a start but its still nothing compared to Metrolink and hows it going to look if people actually have to start paying to use it? KC’s bus network might be the worst in the nation of any metro over 2m+.
DTKC is dead foot traffic wise, the Arch alone blows away much of Downtown KC combined. If people think KC is vibrant then they really need to see more of America. Some of these people would probably combust if they seen NYC or Chicago. Are we just aimlessly self loathing at this point? Has the Chiefs success brainwashed people? People are talking on that thread like KC is Denver or MSP. They must be blind to the Mayor and the Jackson County legislature basically trying to shoehorn the Royals to Downtown by any means necessary despite the fact the locals are so car brained and have prevented it to the point they will probably build way out in suburban Kansas now. To be fair, if it turns out the Royals do actually choose Downtown it may turn the tide.
The growth stats are also incredibly misleading, I often hear KC is growing and STL is dying. Most of KC’s growth is suburban sprawl outside i-435 from the rural midwest. Little is happening in the urban aspect. As far as outlook, all KC has in line as far as large new builds really is four light which is heavily subsidized whilst we will probably get 2CW and the TC Tower at BPV at some point, with the usual refurbs and smaller infill. Both cities are slow growth urban environments outside the Sun Belt. Yes, KC is too. Yeah and I see the same cliquey mentality, where did you go to high school, college, church etc. KC especially in Johnson County is heavily growing off the back of transplants from the rural midwest who bring that mindset with them.
As far as crime, it really is easy to skew an argument to suit your narrative. If you actually considered the urban parts of the KC metro. Urban KCMO south of the Missouri river and inside 435 and KCK east of 635, KC would be up there with the most dangerous cities in the country, but the sprawled out nature waters down the numbers
If we are talking peer cities where their Downtown is further along than ours, sure I’ll concede Pittsburgh or whatever, but KC, eh no. Better bbq through here though I’d say, I’ll give KC that.
welpAuggie wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025Pretty sure he already signed an EO telling agencies to stop giving out Biden spending grants, which includes the infrastructure money.goat314 wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025I just read that only half of the transit capital funds were granted in 2024, because there were not enough shovel-ready transit projects in the United States. Seattle, Minneapolis, and Los Angeles were the only cities that are actually meaningfully trying to expand their light rail systems from the list I saw. Austin has big plans but it's still in it's early planning phases, also a very political issue. Nashville opted for improved bus service and BRT. I really wish the county and city could work together. The Green Line is cool, but we could have really made a truly regional line if the region could work together and probably had a billion or more in federal dollars sent to our region with little competition. Let's just hope that Trump administration is so distracted and doesn't touch the Biden infrastructure money. The metro ceo said recently he was confident in our proposal and that really the only thing that could kill it at this point is politics. Fingers crossed.
- 925
Still not sure why we didn’t make sure to get this application in earlier.goat314 wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025welpAuggie wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025Pretty sure he already signed an EO telling agencies to stop giving out Biden spending grants, which includes the infrastructure money.goat314 wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025I just read that only half of the transit capital funds were granted in 2024, because there were not enough shovel-ready transit projects in the United States. Seattle, Minneapolis, and Los Angeles were the only cities that are actually meaningfully trying to expand their light rail systems from the list I saw. Austin has big plans but it's still in it's early planning phases, also a very political issue. Nashville opted for improved bus service and BRT. I really wish the county and city could work together. The Green Line is cool, but we could have really made a truly regional line if the region could work together and probably had a billion or more in federal dollars sent to our region with little competition. Let's just hope that Trump administration is so distracted and doesn't touch the Biden infrastructure money. The metro ceo said recently he was confident in our proposal and that really the only thing that could kill it at this point is politics. Fingers crossed.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/2 ... hatgpt.comdelmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025Still not sure why we didn’t make sure to get this application in earlier.
Apparently they are already mounting a bipartisan backlash against this. Trump can't just unilaterally and retroactively stop funding for a bill passed by congress. This is more political grandstanding. Even him attacking DEI and EEO will have his administration gridlocked in legal challenges. My prediction is that Trump does a lot of stupid and divisive stuff the next two years, his adminstration is caught up in lawsuits after lawsuit, and the Democrats take back Congress in 2026.
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I had saw on the news that Trump had ordered the halt of all infrastructure money.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I had saw on the news that Trump had ordered the halt of all infrastructure money.
bit more details https://www.governing.com/politics/what-trumps-infrastructure-announcements-mean-for-states
bit more details https://www.governing.com/politics/what-trumps-infrastructure-announcements-mean-for-states
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Bold of you to assume there will be elections at all going forward.
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Disappointing that the Simply Delicious owner chose to throw DT under the bus on her way out.
I only went once. The space was cramped. The only server was stoned and wreaked of weed. The food was OK.
I wish a business owner DT would just say “It didn’t work out.” Instead of trying to make it someone else’s fault every time.
As for her plans in Chicago, if she runs this loose of a ship up there she’ll be lucky to last two months let alone the two years she made it DT.
I only went once. The space was cramped. The only server was stoned and wreaked of weed. The food was OK.
I wish a business owner DT would just say “It didn’t work out.” Instead of trying to make it someone else’s fault every time.
As for her plans in Chicago, if she runs this loose of a ship up there she’ll be lucky to last two months let alone the two years she made it DT.
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Much higher commercial rent and more competitive industry. Idk about that choice. Florissant might be a better attempt to get going. That “violence in downtown St. Louis” and “concept will be relocating to Chicago” does have a particular sting about it that hurt my soul.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jan 27, 2025Disappointing that the Simply Delicious owner chose to throw DT under the bus on her way out.
I only went once. The space was cramped. The only server was stoned and wreaked of weed. The food was OK.
I wish a business owner DT would just say “It didn’t work out.” Instead of trying to make it someone else’s fault every time.
As for her plans in Chicago, if she runs this loose of a ship up there she’ll be lucky to last two months let alone the two years she made it DT.
Specifically just saying “downtown violence” is not very well-rounded.
We do have downtown issues. Our lack of foot traffic is absolutely difficult on retail. So yes, we need change and we need it fast. Commentary like this on social media only makes the issue worse.
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Restaurant across the street had to triple its space because it was doing so well, it opened around the same time as Simply Delicious, which had irregular hours and charged $20-28 for something that you can get anywhere for $12-15
Sounds like a deflection for a bad business. Cardinals poor season had more to do with it, if anything.
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It's been awhile since I've just walked around Downtown for a couple hours... it was a rather sleepy Sunday afternoon and a nice opportunity to observe both its current state as well as challenges and opportunities. The state of the the Railway Exchange and parking garage right in the heart of the CBD is just plain sad right, so hopefully this year marks a turn for the better. Far and away should be the vacancy priority I think for downtown. Successfully executing a small biz retail plan that can help get some of these storefronts active again also would be big.
The art at the 21c Hotel was fantastic and is a great addition to the abundant Free Things to do in St. Louis CIty List.
The art at the 21c Hotel was fantastic and is a great addition to the abundant Free Things to do in St. Louis CIty List.