Thanks, Matt. I assume they use regular plows to clear the hill routes? Anyway, I agree that city capacity compared to the past likely is at play here at least to some extent on how many and how quickly streets get plowed.MattnSTL wrote: ↑Jan 12, 2025^The hill routes were added after the January 5, 2014 storm I believe, which had a similarly poor response.
Some of this really is just because the outlier size storms like this storm and that storm are harder to clear when the crews don't have enough experience, nor enough people to even drive all the trucks that we already have. Putting plows on trash trucks won't help that. And the trash still needs to be picked up anyway. Add to that with the shortage of working trash trucks we have had at times, I don't think we further want to mechanically strain those trucks or employees. That also gets back to management problems.
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Auggie, thank you for being transparent. If DB is on the payroll (sorry if this was already common knowledge) then people should be able to look up and see how much the City is compensating Denis to do his Social Media outreach. Can you point me in the right direction?
Auggie, what is your role? Just curious. If you would rather not say I totally get it. Again, thank you for being transparent.
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I’ve posted zero pictures, liar.Auggie wrote: ↑Jan 13, 2025You've literally posted pictures of clear to pavement streets and said that they're snowcovered. You're about as reliable as Francis Slay.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Jan 13, 2025I’ve not lied once. Merely your perception based on your rather limited exposure to the world around you.
I will take the offered map previously posted showing the multitude of complaints as the truth, as opposed to your singular, anecdotal, and particularly petulant perspective.
Stop gaslighting everyone else. You’re a single data point, and an outlier.
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Auggie got very triggered when I simply stated that lackluster response to this storm could affect the Jones reelection bid negatively.
Even as I noted that it might not be completely "fair" as the poor response seems to be a regional issue, much as inflation is a world wide problem but still negatively affected the incumbent party in the US elections.
His defensiveness would make sense if he indeed did work for the current administration at City Hall.
However his personal attacks are beyond the pale.
Even as I noted that it might not be completely "fair" as the poor response seems to be a regional issue, much as inflation is a world wide problem but still negatively affected the incumbent party in the US elections.
His defensiveness would make sense if he indeed did work for the current administration at City Hall.
However his personal attacks are beyond the pale.
This forum used to be fun. Now people create a thread for a snowstorm and argue about street clearing. I think it’s time for stricter moderation.
Urban Planning/Policy and Real Estate Development or go to Reddit.
Urban Planning/Policy and Real Estate Development or go to Reddit.
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I’m surprised this is still going on the storm is a week behind us roads are pretty much in good condition let’s move on
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It's a major issue affecting the city right now. Youre free to ignore this particular thread.
PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑Jan 13, 2025I’m surprised this is still going on the storm is a week behind us roads are pretty much in good condition let’s move on
Go to 12th Street in Soulard--a bus route and major thoroughfare in the neighborhood--and tell me how good of condition t is.
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I’m having to ignore more and more threads due to personal attacks. Always the same people.Baltimore Jack wrote:It's a major issue affecting the city right now. Youre free to ignore this particular thread.
A snowstorm and subsequent response is not a relevant topic for UrbanSTL. MAYBE a photography thread…
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^ I agree the dialogue here seems to be increasingly toxic and largely due to a limited number of posters, but I feel the topic is definitely appropriate for the forum.... the ability of a city/region to handle weather events like snowstorms is firmly an urbansist issue. Having just taken a precarious walk I can attest to how the sidewalks and public domain are still sh*t a week after the primary event. Yesterday afternoon was somewhat better walking than this morning after the re-freezing. Even aside from what local governments are doing, too many businesses, CIDs, home and apartment building owners, etc. have failed to do their civic duty.
100%PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑Jan 13, 2025I’m surprised this is still going on the storm is a week behind us roads are pretty much in good condition let’s move on
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Cara Spencer's reply today after a truck and school bus were stuck on the streets of Soulard:
"Many of the streets are still a mess. The street I live on isn’t drivable without an SUV. We have been requesting plowing on secondary snow routes for the past week with little success. Streets Dept has been running major thoroughfares but have not been able to get ahead on secondary routes. Will continue to advocate for expanded service. Especially considering the drop in temps"
"Many of the streets are still a mess. The street I live on isn’t drivable without an SUV. We have been requesting plowing on secondary snow routes for the past week with little success. Streets Dept has been running major thoroughfares but have not been able to get ahead on secondary routes. Will continue to advocate for expanded service. Especially considering the drop in temps"
I think that the perception of snow clearing efforts in St. Louis is influenced in part by people's expectations of what "correct" snow clearing efforts look like.
I grew up in Wisconsin and went to high school in Milwaukee. Compared to Milwaukee, St. Louis is terrible at clearing snow during storms. However, St. Louis has snowstorms like this once a decade or so, while Milwaukee does multiple times per year - it would make no sense to spend our limited budgetary resources on the type of equipment and manpower that Milwaukee does.
By contrast, my wife has several coworkers from Atlanta and Jackson, MS. They've been commenting all week about how amazing St. Louis's response has been to the snow and how quickly and effectively the snow was cleared. It seems clear to me that those cities, which might go multiple winters with no snow at all, have made the same cost-benefit analysis and decided that spending even a STL level of money on snow clearance just isn't worth it.
Tl;Dr - No one is lying or gaslighting anyone; we just have different expectations and experiences
I grew up in Wisconsin and went to high school in Milwaukee. Compared to Milwaukee, St. Louis is terrible at clearing snow during storms. However, St. Louis has snowstorms like this once a decade or so, while Milwaukee does multiple times per year - it would make no sense to spend our limited budgetary resources on the type of equipment and manpower that Milwaukee does.
By contrast, my wife has several coworkers from Atlanta and Jackson, MS. They've been commenting all week about how amazing St. Louis's response has been to the snow and how quickly and effectively the snow was cleared. It seems clear to me that those cities, which might go multiple winters with no snow at all, have made the same cost-benefit analysis and decided that spending even a STL level of money on snow clearance just isn't worth it.
Tl;Dr - No one is lying or gaslighting anyone; we just have different expectations and experiences
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^Well said... this is a walking and chewing gum moment. We can be upset the roads are still a mess and also glad we don't have a bloated budget for snow removal if/when we have winters without any snow.
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My question now is why weren't streets treated during the days the temp went to the high 30s low 40s? It really could have helped get rid of some of this mess before the refreeze. It really seems like no attempt was made on those clear days.
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Yeah, I had similar thoughts. Why no salt or beet juice mix put down on side streets if plows aren't feasible.
My neighborhood is still ice with only one road that was cleaned. They need to spray that liquid to melt this ice but I'm guessing they're just waiting for warmer weather since I haven't seen any trucks in days.
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Salt and Beet Juice / ice melt mixture work down to negative temps, so doesn't really explain it.
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I've always heard that salt and beet juice, etc., stop working effectively when the temperatures reach 15 degrees or less.
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Most effective at and above 15 degrees, but works down to -6.
Even at 15, doesn't explain why it wasn't utilized. Dug a sedan out on our street yesterday. RWD and low clearance, poor people didn't stand a chance.
Even at 15, doesn't explain why it wasn't utilized. Dug a sedan out on our street yesterday. RWD and low clearance, poor people didn't stand a chance.
This storm was bad. Worse that usual because of the layers and various precip types.
I can only imagine the collective online freak-out if social media had been prevalent in 1999 when that 1998 New Years Eve storm hit. Anyone remember that snow clearing disaster and the very cold January we had?
I can only imagine the collective online freak-out if social media had been prevalent in 1999 when that 1998 New Years Eve storm hit. Anyone remember that snow clearing disaster and the very cold January we had?
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All I've heard from Mayor Jones is "crews are working around the clock".
But where?
Two warm days where we really could have used treatment on major bus routes like 12th Street.
I know on here a lot of posters just automatically think Jones deserves a second term but unless she adequately answers these questions does she even think that?
But where?
Two warm days where we really could have used treatment on major bus routes like 12th Street.
I know on here a lot of posters just automatically think Jones deserves a second term but unless she adequately answers these questions does she even think that?
It is OK for people to have high standards. Never let people shame you away from that. That said, it’s better to not respond to attacks most of the time.
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Jones automatically deserves a 2nd term because she's the best mayor the city had has this century.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Jan 14, 2025All I've heard from Mayor Jones is "crews are working around the clock".
But where?
Two warm days where we really could have used treatment on major bus routes like 12th Street.
I know on here a lot of posters just automatically think Jones deserves a second term but unless she adequately answers these questions does she even think that?