urbanSTL

I don’t know the numbers but there certainly has been an uptick in news of shootings last couple weeks.

We do need a drastic decrease. We are unfortunately just a city on the top of crime lists to a lot of people, and it’s the first thing people see when they research us. And while the violence is concentrated in north city, near north county, and southeast city, the hotspot in Dutchtown area is somewhat enigmatic as its so close to what are otherwise “desirable” neighborhoods. Obviously, every downtown/downtown west shooting puts us a step backwards in bringing back our center.

Hopefully, we continue successfully with early intervention efforts and the winter doesn’t take all the lives that summer/fall spared.

There was a significant uptick in the last week, however this year we've also had some weeks with almost nothing going on, what matter is the trend not really a bad week/month or a good week/month. At the beginning of the year many of us were concerned that last year was an exception (especially after a violent January) and it would be almost impossible to decrease the number of murders against a historically low number of 2023 and yet as of today we are still in line to reduce the murders by maybe 5%. 

If we end up slightly lower than 2023 it wouldn't only confirm that last year was not an outlier but that the positive trend continues. We need to build on the positive trend and help expand that narrative rather than focusing on the still high number. This is about perception, if murder rates were provided by metro area STL wouldn't be on the top, let's not forget that. If whenever the discussion of the high murder rate comes up we mention the lower murder rate if evaluated through the metro and the decreasing trend, that will help little by little to change perceptions.

Wild story. Gun and cars, cars and guns.

StlToday - Woman led police on 45-minute chase after St. Louis County crime spree, charges say

Police have arrested a woman suspected in several gun crimes after a high-speed chase that lasted for 45 minutes.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 0b28e.html

Can you imagine if any of this sh*t happened on Metro? The Clayton kidnapping, CBC high school kid killed by stray bullet, 45 minute police chase....all happening in cars and on roads. Yet 0 people say that. If any of this happened on Metro, "Woman kidnapped from MetroLink train then killed", "16 year old shot by stray bullet on MetroLink train", "Woman steals bus, leads police in a 45 minute chase". The outcry about safety would be massive and the push back against further expansion would be huge, but not with cars and roads.

Hate American hypocrisy.

Of note: in 21 homicide cases, CA Gore has refused charges requested by SLMPD, that is already higher than any year during Gardner’s 2 terms and we still have 31 days to go.


Refused charges from previous years (entire year for all except 2024)

2018: 7
2019: 12
2020: 18
2021: 15
2022: 19
2023: 14 (Gardner 4, Gore 10)
2024: 21 (through November

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Dec 01, 2024

Of note: in 21 homicide cases, CA Gore has refused charges requested by SLMPD, that is already higher than any year during Gardner’s 2 terms and we still have 31 days to go.


Refused charges from previous years (entire year for all except 2024)

2018: 7
2019: 12
2020: 18
2021: 15
2022: 19
2023: 14 (Gardner 4, Gore 10)
2024: 21 (through November

Only relative if we know number of total cases each year.  Wasn't the CA office molasses under Gardner with cases backed up and delayed?

STLinCHI wrote: ↑

Dec 02, 2024

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Dec 01, 2024

Of note: in 21 homicide cases, CA Gore has refused charges requested by SLMPD, that is already higher than any year during Gardner’s 2 terms and we still have 31 days to go.


Refused charges from previous years (entire year for all except 2024)

2018: 7
2019: 12
2020: 18
2021: 15
2022: 19
2023: 14 (Gardner 4, Gore 10)
2024: 21 (through November

Only relative if we know number of total cases each year.  Wasn't the CA office molasses under Gardner with cases backed up and delayed?

Not really. SLMPD comes in to the warrant office and asks, it’s either accepted or not and in rare cases taken under advisement ( which 3 cases are currently under that status).

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Dec 02, 2024

STLinCHI wrote: ↑

Dec 02, 2024

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Dec 01, 2024

Of note: in 21 homicide cases, CA Gore has refused charges requested by SLMPD, that is already higher than any year during Gardner’s 2 terms and we still have 31 days to go.


Refused charges from previous years (entire year for all except 2024)

2018: 7
2019: 12
2020: 18
2021: 15
2022: 19
2023: 14 (Gardner 4, Gore 10)
2024: 21 (through November

Only relative if we know number of total cases each year.  Wasn't the CA office molasses under Gardner with cases backed up and delayed?

Not really.   SLMPD comes in to the warrant office and asks, it’s either accepted or not and in rare cases taken under advisement ( which 3 cases are currently under that status).

Are the "asks" going up?

STLinCHI wrote: ↑

Dec 03, 2024

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Dec 02, 2024

STLinCHI wrote: ↑

Dec 02, 2024

Only relative if we know number of total cases each year.  Wasn't the CA office molasses under Gardner with cases backed up and delayed?

Not really.   SLMPD comes in to the warrant office and asks, it’s either accepted or not and in rare cases taken under advisement ( which 3 cases are currently under that status).

Are the "asks" going up?

Why would they be going up when homicides are going down?

Which makes Gores 21 rejections curious, it’s about 20% rejections rate and Gardner averaged about 9%

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Dec 03, 2024

STLinCHI wrote: ↑

Dec 03, 2024

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Dec 02, 2024

Not really.   SLMPD comes in to the warrant office and asks, it’s either accepted or not and in rare cases taken under advisement ( which 3 cases are currently under that status).

Are the "asks" going up?

Why would they be going up when homicides are going down?

Which makes Gores 21 rejections curious, it’s about 20% rejections rate and Gardner averaged about 9%

That's interesting. It may be just because Gardner's office accepted cases without really looking into it and let them die in the backlog. I also wonder if the list of officers who couldn't bring charges just meant that those were never even brought up therefore Gardner's office didn't officially reject them.

Such a strange thing where all of you are trying to bend yourself into a pretzel about this with wild speculations

I think the conflict between Gardener's office and the police was more about her openly criticizing the police and openly announcing that she had a list of officers that she wouldn't take cases from. That's at least what most of what I heard. Gore hasn't done any of that.

Gore has a Brady list too, all prosecutors do.

Yup, if a cop has lied so much that s/he’s a useless witness for the prosecution, s/he should be fired. Unfortunately, the police have a union

No, these are only 2024 homicide cases.
And there isn’t a backlog of homicide cases waiting for them to decide. That’s not a thing.

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Dec 03, 2024

Gore has a Brady list too, all prosecutors do.

That's not the point. 99% of prosecutors don't preach the list and give semi-regular updates about the list. As recently as Feb 2023 she had added 15 more cops to her list, which likely totaled around 40. A few months later she resigned. The police, especially police brass, do not care about blacklists of cops, what they care about is that (often incompetent) prosecutor bragging about the list and regularly releasing updates about it. Gore doesn't do that. I'm not even sure he has said anything about the list.

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Dec 03, 2024

Gore has a Brady list too, all prosecutors do.

Gore has no Brady list. He has not found issue with anyone currently on the SLMPD to place them on the list. 

In regards to the reduced issuance numbers, sometimes the Police and Prosecutors will disagree on whether a case is self defense or not. In a castle state such as Missouri, this often occurs. 

Auggie wrote: ↑

Dec 04, 2024

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Dec 03, 2024

Yup, if a cop has lied so much that s/he’s a useless witness for the prosecution, s/he should be fired. Unfortunately, the police have a union

"Unfortunately, police have employee rights."

Yes because police are regular ole employees. No difference between the police and janitors, iron workers, plumbers, etc. Shoot, when was the last time you didn’t see a plumber carrying 3 deadly weapons he can use with immunity?

Note Speak wrote: ↑

Dec 04, 2024

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Dec 03, 2024

Gore has a Brady list too, all prosecutors do.

Gore has no Brady list. He has not found issue with anyone currently on the SLMPD to place them on the list. 

In regards to the reduced issuance numbers, sometimes the Police and Prosecutors will disagree on whether a case is self defense or not. In a castle state such as Missouri, this often occurs. 

such instances fall under the "justifiable" category, of which we've had 6 year to date 

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Dec 03, 2024

Yup, if a cop has lied so much that s/he’s a useless witness for the prosecution, s/he should be fired. Unfortunately, the police have a union

Unfortunately, that's not how Gardner built her Brady List. The glut of her list was based of procedural issues or personality conflicts. Once she left, they were properly addressed, to include training for some and termination for others.