urbanSTL

^Yeah it's also pretty economically illiterate. Like it's not just as if the city of Nashville conjured massive development through ordinances there's a lot of capital flowing in and they get to decide what to do with it. 

To be fair I think all the investments in Tennessee are happening in mostly Nashville I mean you have Memphis but it seems to be almost forgotten by the that state moreover St.Louis’s issues are highly self inflicted we can blame Missouri all we want but St.Louis is responsible for its own actions. The riverfront continues to be a big fat embarrassment N. St.Louis barely has 80-90,000 residents Downtown just floats. St.Louis seems to hover at status quo there’s potential but what’s the point of potential when they aren’t serious about real change & investments. Parking lots should have residential buildings of various stories & storefronts our downtown streets & roads/BLVD need to be rebuilt I’d advocate for extensive beautification throughout the city designate all of North St.Louis as a national historic site/neighborhood if it’s not already. I mean what’s the point of new residents if the city & region aren’t serious about change Change for the better & likely you’ll get more positive press in turn get people who thought negative of St.Louis would want to take a gander. We have the foundation & ingredients our leaders have to seriously want it. Democrat republican independent or not St.Louis is stuck I don’t have the answers but growth isn’t going to happen anytime soon or ever with the current state of affairs we’re in.


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Many mornings we wake up to see shootings in downtown STL. Stupid question: why doesn’t the city use its cash to raise the income for police to attract good cops?

Why not use weed tax revenue? Oh I forgot, this genius Tishaura administration forgot to tax 6 months worth of weed revenue. But if you call Tishaura and her administration stupid, dumb and idiotic, you’re a racist! But guess what, they’re stupid, dumb and
Idiotic. Go Cara Spencer!!!

My goodness this thread has been overwhelmed by the forum knuckle draggers.

If you want to know the real problem with St. Louis, look no further than this thread: St. Louisans.

whitherSTL wrote:Many mornings we wake up to see shootings in downtown STL. Stupid question: why doesn’t the city use its cash to raise the income for police to attract good cops?

Why not use weed tax revenue? Oh I forgot, this genius Tishaura administration forgot to tax 6 months worth of weed revenue. But if you call Tishaura and her administration stupid, dumb and idiotic, you’re a racist! But guess what, they’re stupid, dumb and
Idiotic. Go Cara Spencer!!!

You are simply choosing to ignore the substantial progress on overall crime trends that have occurred during the Jones administration.

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2024

My goodness this thread has been overwhelmed by the forum knuckle draggers.

If you want to know the real problem with St. Louis, look no further than this thread: St. Louisans.

Yeah, we’re the problem. Not the trouble-makers, they’re always excused.

whitherSTL wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2024

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2024

My goodness this thread has been overwhelmed by the forum knuckle draggers.

If you want to know the real problem with St. Louis, look no further than this thread: St. Louisans.

Yeah, we’re the problem. Not the trouble-makers, they’re always excused.

We are the problem. The most self loathing, self pitying bunch around. I’ve never seen people sh*t talk their hometown the way St. Louisans do. Maybe if folks around here took some pride things would improve

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2024

whitherSTL wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2024

But if you call Tishaura and her administration stupid, dumb and idiotic, you’re a racist!

If the shoe fits.

DT StL has sucked for at least 35 years. Jobs have steadily been moving out since the 70s. 909 Chestnut, RX, Millenium Tower, the Municipal Courts Building, and Jefferson Arms have all been empty since Slay administration or earlier. Crime peaked under the Krewson administration.

AND YET, the situation only became an existential crisis after a black woman was elected mayor and the progressives to control of the board of alderman.

Dude! Not taxing weed for 6 months, plus the fact cities are ALLOWED to tack on an extra 3%, is worthy of criticism!! Black, white or Asian. For the record, I thought Tishaura’s predecessor sucked too! Weak argument.

PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2024

To be fair I think all the investments in Tennessee are happening in mostly Nashville I mean you have Memphis but it seems to be almost forgotten by the that state moreover St.Louis’s issues are highly self inflicted we can blame Missouri all we want but St.Louis is responsible for its own actions. The riverfront continues to be a big fat embarrassment N. St.Louis barely has 80-90,000 residents Downtown just floats. St.Louis seems to hover at status quo there’s potential but what’s the point of potential when they aren’t serious about real change & investments. Parking lots should have residential buildings of various stories & storefronts our downtown streets & roads/BLVD need to be rebuilt I’d advocate for extensive beautification throughout the city designate all of North St.Louis as a national historic site/neighborhood if it’s not already. I mean what’s the point of new residents if the city & region aren’t serious about change Change for the better & likely you’ll get more positive press in turn get people who thought negative of St.Louis would want to take a gander. We have the foundation & ingredients our leaders have to seriously want it. Democrat republican independent or not St.Louis is stuck I don’t have the answers but growth isn’t going to happen anytime soon or ever with the current state of affairs we’re in.


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What’s wrong with the river front? North of Eads is an active industrial area as is south of poplar. The area in between was recently nicely re done to about as much as you can do on a river that can flood 20 feet in a day and half and that’s reached major flood stage 2 dozen times since 2000 vs 1 time for Ohio River at downtown Cincy.

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2024

PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2024

To be fair I think all the investments in Tennessee are happening in mostly Nashville I mean you have Memphis but it seems to be almost forgotten by the that state moreover St.Louis’s issues are highly self inflicted we can blame Missouri all we want but St.Louis is responsible for its own actions. The riverfront continues to be a big fat embarrassment N. St.Louis barely has 80-90,000 residents Downtown just floats.  St.Louis seems to hover at status quo there’s potential but what’s the point of potential when they aren’t serious about real change & investments.  Parking lots should have residential buildings of various stories & storefronts our downtown streets & roads/BLVD need to be rebuilt I’d advocate for extensive beautification throughout the city designate all of North St.Louis as a national historic site/neighborhood if it’s not already.  I mean what’s the point of new residents if the city & region aren’t serious about change Change for the better & likely you’ll get more positive press in turn get people who thought negative of St.Louis would want to take a gander.  We have the foundation & ingredients our leaders have to seriously want it. Democrat republican independent or not St.Louis is stuck I don’t have the answers but growth isn’t going to happen anytime soon or ever with the current state of affairs we’re in.  


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What’s wrong with the river front? North of Eads is an active industrial area as is south of poplar. The area in between was recently nicely re done to about as much as you can do on a river that can flood 20 feet in a day and half and that’s reached major flood stage 2 dozen times since 2000 vs 1 time for Ohio River at downtown Cincy.

You're kidding right? ?

I would hardly call Eads to Stan-span an "active industrial area".   This also assumes that industrial is it's best use which I gotta disagree there.   Arch redo is nice but the river side leaves a lot to be desired, and is about as well programmed as the rest of the riverfront.  Of all the wasted potential in STL, the north riverfront is easily the most visible.   

All that said, floods are no joke, and the walls we have aren't high enough(because they keep building them too high upstream).  

Not to say this is like priority #1, but I just can't see stamping any kind of seal of approval on the riverfront as-is

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2024

PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2024

To be fair I think all the investments in Tennessee are happening in mostly Nashville I mean you have Memphis but it seems to be almost forgotten by the that state moreover St.Louis’s issues are highly self inflicted we can blame Missouri all we want but St.Louis is responsible for its own actions. The riverfront continues to be a big fat embarrassment N. St.Louis barely has 80-90,000 residents Downtown just floats.  St.Louis seems to hover at status quo there’s potential but what’s the point of potential when they aren’t serious about real change & investments.  Parking lots should have residential buildings of various stories & storefronts our downtown streets & roads/BLVD need to be rebuilt I’d advocate for extensive beautification throughout the city designate all of North St.Louis as a national historic site/neighborhood if it’s not already.  I mean what’s the point of new residents if the city & region aren’t serious about change Change for the better & likely you’ll get more positive press in turn get people who thought negative of St.Louis would want to take a gander.  We have the foundation & ingredients our leaders have to seriously want it. Democrat republican independent or not St.Louis is stuck I don’t have the answers but growth isn’t going to happen anytime soon or ever with the current state of affairs we’re in.  


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What’s wrong with the river front? North of Eads is an active industrial area as is south of poplar. The area in between was recently nicely re done to about as much as you can do on a river that can flood 20 feet in a day and half and that’s reached major flood stage 2 dozen times since 2000 vs 1 time for Ohio River at downtown Cincy.

Yeah DB has to be joking around about this.

I get it that the Mississippi is bigger and angrier than most of the rivers that run through the Capitals of Europe but THOSE are nice riverfronts.

I mean, there's literally nothing but ugliness on one ENTIRE side of the riverfront.

I appreciate a good cheerleader for St. Louis. I am too in my own way but the riverfront? Um, no.

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2024

PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2024

To be fair I think all the investments in Tennessee are happening in mostly Nashville I mean you have Memphis but it seems to be almost forgotten by the that state moreover St.Louis’s issues are highly self inflicted we can blame Missouri all we want but St.Louis is responsible for its own actions. The riverfront continues to be a big fat embarrassment N. St.Louis barely has 80-90,000 residents Downtown just floats.  St.Louis seems to hover at status quo there’s potential but what’s the point of potential when they aren’t serious about real change & investments.  Parking lots should have residential buildings of various stories & storefronts our downtown streets & roads/BLVD need to be rebuilt I’d advocate for extensive beautification throughout the city designate all of North St.Louis as a national historic site/neighborhood if it’s not already.  I mean what’s the point of new residents if the city & region aren’t serious about change Change for the better & likely you’ll get more positive press in turn get people who thought negative of St.Louis would want to take a gander.  We have the foundation & ingredients our leaders have to seriously want it. Democrat republican independent or not St.Louis is stuck I don’t have the answers but growth isn’t going to happen anytime soon or ever with the current state of affairs we’re in.  


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What’s wrong with the river front? North of Eads is an active industrial area as is south of poplar. The area in between was recently nicely re done to about as much as you can do on a river that can flood 20 feet in a day and half and that’s reached major flood stage 2 dozen times since 2000 vs 1 time for Ohio River at downtown Cincy.

@dbInSouthCity just ignore them - their objective is to bash regardless how much progress was made.

my two cents for the vacant buildings and parking lots is to invest in tech companies and enforce three day work week strictly.

North Riverfront doesn't have much industry south of the Stan Span. Should absolutely be a target for dense residential. Should be turned into 5 over 1 city. 

One of the biggest things that would help downtown is getting the East Riverfront and DTESTL clicking again. Imagine each with 4,000 residents, connected to Downtown via Metrolink and perhaps a greenway that crosses the Eads.

Is there much in the way of riverfront housing in the metro area overall? Especially anything that is not single-family detached homes?

Washington MO has some good examples

stlurbanist wrote:

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2024

PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2024

To be fair I think all the investments in Tennessee are happening in mostly Nashville I mean you have Memphis but it seems to be almost forgotten by the that state moreover St.Louis’s issues are highly self inflicted we can blame Missouri all we want but St.Louis is responsible for its own actions. The riverfront continues to be a big fat embarrassment N. St.Louis barely has 80-90,000 residents Downtown just floats.  St.Louis seems to hover at status quo there’s potential but what’s the point of potential when they aren’t serious about real change & investments.  Parking lots should have residential buildings of various stories & storefronts our downtown streets & roads/BLVD need to be rebuilt I’d advocate for extensive beautification throughout the city designate all of North St.Louis as a national historic site/neighborhood if it’s not already.  I mean what’s the point of new residents if the city & region aren’t serious about change Change for the better & likely you’ll get more positive press in turn get people who thought negative of St.Louis would want to take a gander.  We have the foundation & ingredients our leaders have to seriously want it. Democrat republican independent or not St.Louis is stuck I don’t have the answers but growth isn’t going to happen anytime soon or ever with the current state of affairs we’re in.  


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What’s wrong with the river front? North of Eads is an active industrial area as is south of poplar. The area in between was recently nicely re done to about as much as you can do on a river that can flood 20 feet in a day and half and that’s reached major flood stage 2 dozen times since 2000 vs 1 time for Ohio River at downtown Cincy.

@dbInSouthCity just ignore them - their objective is to bash regardless how much progress was made.

my two cents for the vacant buildings and parking lots is to invest in tech companies and enforce three day work week strictly.

As a lifelong St.Louis resident I have every right to bash & what I pointed out are simple truths anything north of the casino & south of popular street bridge is an embarrassment. I wholeheartedly hope Chouteau’s Landing comes to fruition & help alleviate a lot of the perceptions that constantly plague our region. I don’t think I know we deserve to live in a place that’s progressive, growing, beautiful, friendly & welcoming. I completely acknowledge the progress we’ve made I remember downtown was almost completely abandoned I hope that never happens again in any of our lifetime & many generations to come. I’m not here to argue I’m here to share my thoughts whether it’s bashing or championing & cheering I’ll do what I feel. I mean we can knit pick the things we don’t like about Nashville the truth is they are growing exponentially & we’re not…. There’s a big difference their working as a true team & we have these little pecking fiefdoms. I hope someday that St.Louis is back growing particularly in the city.


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What downtown riverfronts should we be looking at as realistic comparison/aspiration?

imperialmog wrote: ↑

Jun 03, 2024

Is there much in the way of riverfront housing in the metro area overall? Especially anything that is not single-family detached homes?

I mean there is the flood wall there--But on the north side the terrain rapidly rises to the west of it such that about a block away you're at the height of the wall.  While the height of the wall does need to come up (or upstream levees need to come down to their actual legal heights), what is stopping us from simply filling in much of this with earth?  Lenor K would come up about 10 feet and becomes pedestrian only and has actual river views, about a block from the wall going west is greenspace/park and you can build dense residential  and business  beyond.  This is, vaguely, what Little Rock has done on the Arkansas river with their riverfront park.

I think its all still zoned unrestricted, so thats a problem.  GRG already reimagined this all 10 years ago(short of taking on the problem of the wall) The city needs to get on board.   

Whisky on Washington is moving to the Lucas Park Grill space. Expanding to food too. Opening sometime in July

TalkinDev wrote: ↑

Jun 03, 2024

What downtown riverfronts should we be looking at as realistic comparison/aspiration?

I'd say Louisville, Ky is our closest contemporary. Similar histories...similar former riverfront functions...and Louisville has invested heavily in the transition of their waterfront land from working to recreational. Louisville has the riverfront we've deserved for decades...every time I've been, I've been so jealous. And I come back here, see our industrial sludge waste strewn riverfront and I can actually see how everything they've done there could translate here. 

SRQ2STL wrote: ↑

Jun 04, 2024

TalkinDev wrote: ↑

Jun 03, 2024

What downtown riverfronts should we be looking at as realistic comparison/aspiration?

I'd say Louisville, Ky is our closest contemporary. Similar histories...similar former riverfront functions...and Louisville has invested heavily in the transition of their waterfront land from working to recreational. Louisville has the riverfront we've deserved for decades...every time I've been, I've been so jealous. And I come back here, see our industrial sludge waste strewn riverfront and I can actually see how everything they've done there could translate here. 

once again, the river at Louisville, like Cincinatti doesn't flood as violently nor does it reach the major flood stage nearly as much as it does here.