Phase 2 still looks great! Even better now that Katie's is open.
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Any news or rumblings phase 3? It will be 2040 by the time it's finished at this rate.
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If they don't already have financing in place, probably got to wait until rates go back down a bit. Which may be in 2024-2025
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Ngl, I would trade Arenado and Goldy for phase three any day
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Maybe MLB should take a page out of euro soccer and allow teams to actually sell players. I’d think we can get $100,000,000 for Arenado and maybe $35-45m for goldy. Walker would be at least $60m
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I think FleishmanHillard would be a great addition to BPV specially if they are looking to move that’s if. the Cardinals can get phase 3 rolling. Would think it be a big missed opportunity
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^ Kind of a lateral move though. I would have no issue with FH re-upping in their existing office downtown. They’re more in what I would consider the “business core” anyway. Not sure it’s all that worthwhile to build new to lure companies from one side of Market to the other.
Definitely worth engaging them, but I hope they stay in their current digs.
Now, an out of region, or state company…or even a company in the suburbs or Clayton…that’s different. You have to take a hard swing at those.
Definitely worth engaging them, but I hope they stay in their current digs.
Now, an out of region, or state company…or even a company in the suburbs or Clayton…that’s different. You have to take a hard swing at those.
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That's not how valuation works in baseball. Arenado's contract especially is underwater.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Aug 10, 2023Maybe MLB should take a page out of euro soccer and allow teams to actually sell players. I’d think we can get $100,000,000 for Arenado and maybe $35-45m for goldy. Walker would be at least $60m
In baseball, you don't trade players, you trade contracts.
Getting a new Downtown tenant should be a priority. Not shifting companies around.PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑Aug 10, 2023I think FleishmanHillard would be a great addition to BPV specially if they are looking to move that’s if. the Cardinals can get phase 3 rolling. Would think it be a big missed opportunity
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Yeah, it’s almost as if capital’s motive to seek the highest rents possible works contrary to the common weal.bwcrow1s wrote: ↑Aug 11, 2023Getting a new Downtown tenant should be a priority. Not shifting companies around.PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑Aug 10, 2023I think FleishmanHillard would be a great addition to BPV specially if they are looking to move that’s if. the Cardinals can get phase 3 rolling. Would think it be a big missed opportunity
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bwcrow1s wrote:Getting a new Downtown tenant should be a priority. Not shifting companies around.PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑Aug 10, 2023I think FleishmanHillard would be a great addition to BPV specially if they are looking to move that’s if. the Cardinals can get phase 3 rolling. Would think it be a big missed opportunity
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That I do agree that priority should be getting new companies downtown but that’s like beating piñata constantly until it finally busts. I’m just saying keeping the same companies downtown is key even if they want to move elsewhere within.bwcrow1s wrote:Getting a new Downtown tenant should be a priority. Not shifting companies around.PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑Aug 10, 2023I think FleishmanHillard would be a great addition to BPV specially if they are looking to move that’s if. the Cardinals can get phase 3 rolling. Would think it be a big missed opportunity
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And who is going to want the older class A? Probably not the company we're all looking for.
So the Phase II announcement was made October 2016 after the season was over, and it kinda came out of the blue. We missed the playoffs that year as well, any speculation on timing of a Phase III announcement?
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Only that correlation does not imply causation. Either they have something lined up to announce or they don't. Trying to tie in real estate development announcements to the team's on field success is a wild goose chase.
My apologies did not mean to imply that the record was a factor, that is just a coincidence (an unfortunate one).Laife Fulk wrote: ↑Sep 21, 2023Only that correlation does not imply causation. Either they have something lined up to announce or they don't. Trying to tie in real estate development announcements to the team's on field success is a wild goose chase.
My point is that it has been 7 years since the last announcement, and they did a real good job on keeping the lid on it until the press release.
With high interest rates I can see them kicking the can further down the road, its just getting to be a while.
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Idk if it’s the high rates. Banks are still freaked out about SVB, Signature Bank and Republic Bank.
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No timeline for Ballpark Village expansion, St. Louis Cardinals say, citing interest rates, inflation
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https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news/2023/10/09/ballpark-village-expansion-cardinals.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_5&cx_artPos=0#cxrecs_sCardinals President Bill DeWitt III said in an interview Thursday the Cardinals and Cordish have plans for future expansion of Ballpark Village, the mixed-use development adjacent to Busch Stadium. At the top of the agenda for expansion is the addition of a second residential tower, seeking to build off the success of One Cardinal Way, the $120 million, 297-unit apartment tower that opened in 2020 as part of the district’s $260 million phase two expansion. While bullish on the market opportunity for a second tower, DeWitt said Thursday the proposed project isn't imminent due to inflation that raised construction costs, plus subsequent interest rate increases by the Federal Reserve meant to address the problem.
“We're faced with the reality that to build that same building today would probably cost 50% more and to finance that building today would require much higher interest rate payments,” DeWitt said. DeWitt described the project as being in a "holding pattern waiting for the financial marketplace to settle."
The Cardinals said in 2021, when inflation began to take off, that filling out the remaining real estate in Ballpark Village could take three to six years.
DeWitt’s comments come as developers have pulled back from and paused other local projects. St. Louis-based developer Pier Property Group said last week it is no longer pursuing its planned mixed-use redevelopment of Caleres' headquarters campus in Clayton, citing “current capital market conditions” in financial markets. Closer to Ballpark Village, Kansas City-based MW Cos. and Garrison Cos. in May said it put on hold a $31 million apartment complex development proposed at the site of the former Mike Shannon’s restaurant near Busch Stadium. The company said it was focusing on other priorities ahead of the Shannon's project.
“I think once the market settles down on where we think the rates are heading and we can get some visibility on which way the broader economy is headed, I think you'll see a little bit more activity on projects that are right now kind of on ice,” DeWitt said.
While future expansion of Ballpark Village won't be immediate, DeWitt said he’s encouraged by the retail additions this year within the district. That has included the opening of Condado Tacos, a Columbus, Ohio-based restaurant chain known for its tacos; Katie’s Pizza & Pasta Osteria, which in May opened its third and largest restaurant in Ballpark Village; and Koibito Poké, which was co-founded by former St. Louis Cardinals pitcher Todd Stottlemyre. DeWitt said there are plans for other retailers to come to Ballpark Village, with announcements expected in the lead up to the team's 2024 season.
“After that we'll be virtually fully leased up retail wise,” he said.
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What scam. By the time BPV is done they’ll be looking for a new subsidized stadium deal.
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Nothing surprising there. This time next year they should probably be announcing once rates are in the 5s
This isn't bad news. Right now rates are the highest ever - add in supply shortages and demand $$$ this makes sense.
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Indeed. Forecasts on CME FedWatch currently anticipate an end of rate hikes this cycle, holding at 5.25-5.50% until a 25bps cut in June, then another 25bps in July. Not confirmed by the FOMC, mind you, but going by current sentiments. Getting interest rates back in the 4's should lead to a lot more construction and development than we have today.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Oct 09, 2023Nothing surprising there. This time next year they should probably be announcing once rates are in the 5s
Fed Overnight Funding Rate is not a good indicator of commercial real estate borrowing cost especially for institutional type assets. SOFR curve is a much better predictor. I wouldn't hold my breath that we see rates sub 5.5% for along time. I believe we have entered a normalized interest rate environment. I hope I'm wrong. 4% money would be great.gone corporate wrote: ↑Oct 10, 2023Indeed. Forecasts on CME FedWatch currently anticipate an end of rate hikes this cycle, holding at 5.25-5.50% until a 25bps cut in June, then another 25bps in July. Not confirmed by the FOMC, mind you, but going by current sentiments. Getting interest rates back in the 4's should lead to a lot more construction and development than we have today.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Oct 09, 2023Nothing surprising there. This time next year they should probably be announcing once rates are in the 5s
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There's usually something like a nine-month lag between the final rate hike of a cycle like this one and the first cut taking place. Yeah, it sure would be nice to have 4% money again, and it's likely we'll get closer to that next year. Agree that the SOFR curve is better for CRE borrowing; I put up the FedWatch because that's what I use regularly and know as a quality reference. Do you have any SOFR data for here or another thread?STLAPTS wrote: ↑Oct 10, 2023Fed Overnight Funding Rate is not a good indicator of commercial real estate borrowing cost especially for institutional type assets. SOFR curve is a much better predictor. I wouldn't hold my breath that we see rates sub 5.5% for along time. I believe we have entered a normalized interest rate environment. I hope I'm wrong. 4% money would be great.gone corporate wrote: ↑Oct 10, 2023Indeed. Forecasts on CME FedWatch currently anticipate an end of rate hikes this cycle, holding at 5.25-5.50% until a 25bps cut in June, then another 25bps in July. Not confirmed by the FOMC, mind you, but going by current sentiments. Getting interest rates back in the 4's should lead to a lot more construction and development than we have today.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Oct 09, 2023Nothing surprising there. This time next year they should probably be announcing once rates are in the 5s
Focus on BPV: I still have reason to believe that DeWitt & Cordish are ready to go with the next phase - but only when it's economically sound to do so.
As you know, SOFR futures are constantly moving. It would seem (I'm no expert) that the futures would indicate cuts getting pushed further and further out with fewer and fewer cuts being made. I fully expect the cost of money to normalize around 6-6.5% but my guess is as good as anyone else's. Don't forget that banks typically lend at 2 - 2.5 % spread. So, a fed funds rate of 4% would be the equivalent of a 6-6.5% interest rate for borrowers.gone corporate wrote: ↑Oct 10, 2023There's usually something like a nine-month lag between the final rate hike of a cycle like this one and the first cut taking place. Yeah, it sure would be nice to have 4% money again, and it's likely we'll get closer to that next year. Agree that the SOFR curve is better for CRE borrowing; I put up the FedWatch because that's what I use regularly and know as a quality reference. Do you have any SOFR data for here or another thread?STLAPTS wrote: ↑Oct 10, 2023Fed Overnight Funding Rate is not a good indicator of commercial real estate borrowing cost especially for institutional type assets. SOFR curve is a much better predictor. I wouldn't hold my breath that we see rates sub 5.5% for along time. I believe we have entered a normalized interest rate environment. I hope I'm wrong. 4% money would be great.gone corporate wrote: ↑Oct 10, 2023Indeed. Forecasts on CME FedWatch currently anticipate an end of rate hikes this cycle, holding at 5.25-5.50% until a 25bps cut in June, then another 25bps in July. Not confirmed by the FOMC, mind you, but going by current sentiments. Getting interest rates back in the 4's should lead to a lot more construction and development than we have today.
Focus on BPV: I still have reason to believe that DeWitt & Cordish are ready to go with the next phase - but only when it's economically sound to do so.