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sc4mayor
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PostJun 22, 2023#176

Apparently construction begins this week on the installation of 30 speed humps and improvements to 12th and Russell in Soulard.  Sounds like bump outs and narrower crosswalks are in planning for the rest of the neighborhood as well.  From the Soulard CID:
Phase 1 of the project will focus on 12th Street and Russell Blvd and may include entryway calming (and neighborhood identification) markers, crosswalk design and improvements, and intersection bump outs. The goal is for targeted streets / intersections to be worked on comprehensively as safety improvements are made, to also include beautification elements, signage improvement, speed limit postings and the removal (visual decluttering) of irrelevant signage. In addition to a focus on 12th and Russell, phase 1 will also include the strategic placements speed humps throughout the neighborhood.
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PostJun 23, 2023#177

Does anyone know the rationale behind installing speed humps mid-block, as opposed to right before a stop sign?  My initial reaction to seeing these go in is that there could be a 2 birds-1 stone advantage to locating them at stop signs: keep people from flying AND lessen the occurrence of blowing stop signs, no?

~perplexed 12th St freeway resident
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PostJun 23, 2023#178

I expect the desired outcome is specifically slower speeds and not improving adherence to stop signs. It assumes that MOST drivers are already slowing down so by placing them mid-block you’re keeping drivers low after the stop sign.

I live on the north side of Chicago. Essentially every neighborhood street has humps, but always mid-block. It definitely helps.
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PostJun 23, 2023#179

addxb2 wrote:I expect the desired outcome is specifically slower speeds and not improving adherence to stop signs. It assumes that MOST drivers are already slowing down so by placing them mid-block you’re keeping drivers low after the stop sign.

I live on the north side of Chicago. Essentially every neighborhood street has humps, but always mid-block. It definitely helps.
This is correct as well as it’s a financial decision. Bumps at stop signs would be 2 per linear block therefore higher cost and more maintenance.
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PostJun 23, 2023#180

To clarify, I'm a proponent of the humps - I wish they were even bigger.  And I could see how a long superblock would benefit by mid-block installation.  But Soulard has short blocks, and most of them are 4-way stops.  Since many ignoramuses nearly completely disregard stop signs, it seems like if we only have one effective tool at getting them to hit the brakes, it would be logical to place the humps near an intersection where pedestrians/other vehicles will be crossing, and a stop is more imperative. 

PostJun 23, 2023#181

LArchitecture wrote: ↑
Jun 23, 2023
addxb2 wrote:I expect the desired outcome is specifically slower speeds and not improving adherence to stop signs. It assumes that MOST drivers are already slowing down so by placing them mid-block you’re keeping drivers low after the stop sign.

I live on the north side of Chicago. Essentially every neighborhood street has humps, but always mid-block. It definitely helps.
This is correct as well as it’s a financial decision. Bumps at stop signs would be 2 per linear block therefore higher cost and more maintenance.
I don't think there would be any more required.  If there's a hump right after the intersection you're approaching, it would compel you to slow/stop essentially the same as if it were located right before the intersection.  My thinking is how do we make more stops happen at intersections (absent enforcement), where they are more crucial.  I'm certainly not a traffic engineer, though.  Just someone who cringes at the sight of an elder with a walker, or a mom with a stroller trying to cross an intersection.  I've seen (or been party to) a lot of close calls, as we all have.
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PostJun 23, 2023#182

johnnyqnola wrote:
LArchitecture wrote: ↑
Jun 23, 2023
addxb2 wrote:I expect the desired outcome is specifically slower speeds and not improving adherence to stop signs. It assumes that MOST drivers are already slowing down so by placing them mid-block you’re keeping drivers low after the stop sign.

I live on the north side of Chicago. Essentially every neighborhood street has humps, but always mid-block. It definitely helps.
This is correct as well as it’s a financial decision. Bumps at stop signs would be 2 per linear block therefore higher cost and more maintenance.
I don't think there would be any more required.  If there's a hump right after the intersection you're approaching, it would compel you to slow/stop essentially the same as if it were located right before the intersection.  My thinking is how do we make more stops happen at intersections (absent enforcement), where they are more crucial.  I'm certainly not a traffic engineer, though.  Just someone who cringes at the sight of an elder with a walker, or a mom with a stroller trying to cross an intersection.  I've seen (or been party to) a lot of close calls, as we all have.
Most data shows that speed bumps are most effective not at intersections and many cities have codes dictating the distance. I have not read STL code for a few months but I have read other cities and I have seen numbers such as 75’, 100’ and 150’.
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PostJun 28, 2023#183

StlToday - St. Louis to beef up safety at 10 dangerous intersections

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 39ba4.html

PostJun 29, 2023#184

BB79 introduced by Ald Velazquez for speed humps in the 6th Ward
4000 block of Hartford Street, 3700 block of Gustine Avenue, 3500 block of Giles Avenue, 3200 block of Hawthorne Boulevard, 3400 block of Hawthorne Boulevard, 3200 block of Longfellow Boulevard and 3400 block of Longfellow Boulevard.
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/c ... BBId=15292

PostJun 30, 2023#185

Construction on safety improvements at Skinker and Forest Park Parkway begins July 19th. 
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PostJun 30, 2023#186

quincunx wrote:Construction on safety improvements at Skinker and Forest Park Parkway begins July 19th. 
I don’t remember seeing a rendering/description of what is going to be done. Anyone have a link to that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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PostJun 30, 2023#187

See post 168

https://skinkerdebaliviere.wordpress.co ... on-safety/
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PostJun 30, 2023#188

Here's the final study: https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... ages-2.pdf
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PostJun 30, 2023#189

That study was focused on the interior of the neighborhood. Of course people brought up issues at the edges. So far I think the only thing implemented has been painted crosswalks at Waterman and Des Peres. There's a board bill for some speed humps.
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PostJun 30, 2023#190

Ope. Gotcha.
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PostJul 10, 2023#191

NextSTL - Safety Improvements coming to Skinker and Forest Park Parkway

FPP and SKinker Safety Improvements Drawing.png (407.93KiB)


https://nextstl.com/2023/07/safety-impr ... k-parkway/
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PostJul 10, 2023#192

quincunx wrote:NextSTL - Safety Improvements coming to Skinker and Forest Park Parkway

FPP and SKinker Safety Improvements Drawing.png

https://nextstl.com/2023/07/safety-impr ... k-parkway/
Other than having perpendicular/facing crosswalks I don’t really see how this is much of a safety improvement. It’s pretty much what already exists and then adding some crosswalk width for bikes. Need the center median on east forest park parkway to continue west and run north south on Skinker. That would be an improvement.
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PostJul 10, 2023#193

^Yeah, a real pedestrian refuge in the center of both streets and protected bike lanes and a road diet at least on Skinker would be really good.
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PostJul 10, 2023#194

I wish we had the courage to do that, but the level of service!
The earlier drawings had a median on the west side. I don't know why it was removed from the design.
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PostJul 11, 2023#195

I'm with you guys on wanting things to be faster and genuinely protective, but my daily experience of crossing Skinker on a bike at the intersection just south of FPP & Skinker has improved like 200% since they added the green paint. I know paint isn't going to magically protect me from a driver who does not care that I exist, but for the 98% of drivers who I genuinely believe are trying not to murder someone...I think the paint helps a lot. It seems to highlight for drivers that they should be looking for bikes. For awhile I was going the extra couple blocks out of my way to cross Skinker at Wydown just because the paint seemed to be encouraging better driver behavior, so I'm really glad to see this continuing to spread north, even if it's only a half measure.
sc4mayor
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PostJul 11, 2023#196

The WashU Skinker intersections are nice.  Maybe not perfect, but you're also not going to eliminate every a**hole driver out there no matter how perfect you build it.  But the extra wide, visible cross walks, green bike lanes, etc. will get the majority of drivers to pay attention and mind their space. My guess is FPP will look exactly like these:


I wish Wydown and Skinker would get the same treatment:
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PostJul 11, 2023#197

MoDOT to show possible safety upgrades for Page Boulevard in north St. Louis on Tuesday

State transportation officials on Tuesday afternoon will demonstrate potential changes for Page Boulevard aimed at improving traffic safety along the north St. Louis street.
The event will be from 2 to 6 p.m. along a two-block stretch of Page between Belt and Arlington avenues, in front of the Better Family Life facility at 5415 Page.

Among possible improvements to be shown are a reduction in vehicle lanes, pedestrian "refuge islands," a median and curb extensions and "bump outs."
"We're really looking forward to giving our residents and commuters an opportunity to physically experience how various safety features might work" and get feedback, said Jen Wade, the Missouri Department of Transportation's area engineer for the city.

The reaction gathered at the event will be used by MoDOT in determining what features to include when the agency in 2026 resurfaces and improves the 4-mile stretch of Page inside city limits and a 2-mile segment of Martin Luther King Drive east of Page.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/modot-to-show-possible-safety-upgrades-for-page-boulevard-in-north-st-louis-on-tuesday/article_354cbc26-2009-11ee-956b-134e13c1b450.html#tracking-source=home-the-latest
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PostJul 12, 2023#198

MoDOT Route D Page Ave project page

https://www.modot.org/route-d-safety-an ... louis-city
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PostJul 20, 2023#199

Can we give Olive/Lindell a road diet like this from Tucker to Grand?



(Yes, I know we can't do palm trees.)
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PostJul 20, 2023#200

^ All the yes
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