Winterbwcrow1s wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2023The outdoor plaza is nice (and I agree, kind of over the top), but what about an outdoor area past security? Half of what I loathe about airports for the most part (outside of Long Beach, I love that airport) is the fact that I'm going to sit in stale ass air filled with a vast array of weird food smells for an hour or more. You'd think that adding some sort of outside component past security would be a no-brainer especially with the mentality post-covid. Or maybe that's just me. Even a rooftop viewing deck would be a really cool addition.
That said, I know nothing about FAA regulations.. so all of that might be ridiculous.
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Winter isn’t the case at all. LaGuardia has an outdoor restaurant and winters are much more brutal there.stl07 wrote:Winterbwcrow1s wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2023The outdoor plaza is nice (and I agree, kind of over the top), but what about an outdoor area past security? Half of what I loathe about airports for the most part (outside of Long Beach, I love that airport) is the fact that I'm going to sit in stale ass air filled with a vast array of weird food smells for an hour or more. You'd think that adding some sort of outside component past security would be a no-brainer especially with the mentality post-covid. Or maybe that's just me. Even a rooftop viewing deck would be a really cool addition.
That said, I know nothing about FAA regulations.. so all of that might be ridiculous.
There is certainly security concerns but FAA has become more open to innovation and change in recent years so outdoor space is certainly possible in the right situation. I mean look at LaGuardia for example and it’s bridges over planes setup which many thought FAA would kill immediately due to security concerns.
So it comes down to the airport operators and what they want and will pay to have in their facility. It also depends how much they want the FAA to review. If you go incredibly basic the review timeline isn’t as long.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelgol ... ow-crowds/
Sounds like exactly the kind of plane that could make more international flights from STL profitable.
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Sounds like exactly the kind of plane that could make more international flights from STL profitable.
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There are three other seasons that encompass the majority of the year.stl07 wrote: ↑Jul 08, 2023Winterbwcrow1s wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2023The outdoor plaza is nice (and I agree, kind of over the top), but what about an outdoor area past security? Half of what I loathe about airports for the most part (outside of Long Beach, I love that airport) is the fact that I'm going to sit in stale ass air filled with a vast array of weird food smells for an hour or more. You'd think that adding some sort of outside component past security would be a no-brainer especially with the mentality post-covid. Or maybe that's just me. Even a rooftop viewing deck would be a really cool addition.
That said, I know nothing about FAA regulations.. so all of that might be ridiculous.
The internet says STL to London is 6760 km or 3648 nmThe key sales driver is the plane’s promised range of up to 4,700 nautical miles (nm), or 8700 kilometers (km.)
Paris 7054 km or 3806 nm
Sarajevo 8380 km or 4522 nm
The new KCI terminal has a pre-security outdoor park (no airfield view) and Delta has two outdoor decks at their Skyclub overlooking the airfield (post security). Outdoor space can 100% work in this environment, I’m just not sure of the use case for soo much of it pre security at STL.LArchitecture wrote:Winter isn’t the case at all. LaGuardia has an outdoor restaurant and winters are much more brutal there.stl07 wrote:Winterbwcrow1s wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2023The outdoor plaza is nice (and I agree, kind of over the top), but what about an outdoor area past security? Half of what I loathe about airports for the most part (outside of Long Beach, I love that airport) is the fact that I'm going to sit in stale ass air filled with a vast array of weird food smells for an hour or more. You'd think that adding some sort of outside component past security would be a no-brainer especially with the mentality post-covid. Or maybe that's just me. Even a rooftop viewing deck would be a really cool addition.
That said, I know nothing about FAA regulations.. so all of that might be ridiculous.
There is certainly security concerns but FAA has become more open to innovation and change in recent years so outdoor space is certainly possible in the right situation. I mean look at LaGuardia for example and it’s bridges over planes setup which many thought FAA would kill immediately due to security concerns.
So it comes down to the airport operators and what they want and will pay to have in their facility. It also depends how much they want the FAA to review. If you go incredibly basic the review timeline isn’t as long.
Been saying for awhile it should be a big win for cities like STL when this plane gets delivered. I think it’s the only reason we haven’t seen Aer Lingus here yet.
That all said I’ve heard some airlines are skeptical of the range predictions. They think it will be more limited than those numbers. I think it could get to London/Paris from here but anything further is I’ll believe it when I see it.
I think I posted on this forum — years ago and in a fit of frustrated rage — that ‘Little Rock will get a flight to London before St. Louis does.’
This plane can make that happen. And it probably will.
Or once upon a time having a college degree meant something. Now you have to have a masters. And a YouTube channel.
This plane can make that happen. And it probably will.
Or once upon a time having a college degree meant something. Now you have to have a masters. And a YouTube channel.
The Aer Lingus flight to Cleveland that started this summer is using an A321LR, which has a slightly shorter advertised range (4000nm). Local and state governments provided almost $12 million to make it happen. This story says it's the type of incentive that is paid if the route does *not* meet revenue goals.jshank83 wrote:Been saying for awhile it should be a big win for cities like STL when this plane gets delivered. I think it’s the only reason we haven’t seen Aer Lingus here yet.
That all said I’ve heard some airlines are skeptical of the range predictions. They think it will be more limited than those numbers. I think it could get to London/Paris from here but anything further is I’ll believe it when I see it.
https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment ... years.html
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Little Rock wouldn’t get a flight to London even if a 50 seater could make it.shadrach wrote: ↑Jul 09, 2023I think I posted on this forum — years ago and in a fit of frustrated rage — that ‘Little Rock will get a flight to London before St. Louis does.’
This plane can make that happen. And it probably will.
Or once upon a time having a college degree meant something. Now you have to have a masters. And a YouTube channel.
It’s hyperbole but the article mentioned Omaha to London.
My point is everybody and their brother will potentially have TATL flights—KC, OKC, Columbus, Milwaukee…
For metros it won’t be competitive advantage but ‘the cost of entry.’ It’s kinda like that now already.
My point is everybody and their brother will potentially have TATL flights—KC, OKC, Columbus, Milwaukee…
For metros it won’t be competitive advantage but ‘the cost of entry.’ It’s kinda like that now already.
Opens up more options for sure. I’ll be curious where the dividing line for what cities it works for are. Some cities already are in range of the 321LR and 757 (Ohio-ish and east) and don’t have anything so it will be interesting to see which airlines order the XLR and how they choose to deploy them. I’m guessing the American airlines use them more from hubs to smaller European cities or to South America. So far Aer Lingus and maybe Icelandair are the only 2 I see using them to expand to the midwest from Europe. AA/UA could surprise but I can’t see them getting away from their hub centric routes.
I’ve been really surprised Hawaiian hasn’t ordered any, seems like the perfect plane for them to open up more routes.
I don't fly WN often so don't get many chances to come to T2. Well, I did this morning, and it's absolute chaos. The security line twisted multiple times along the length of the terminal and finished outside the building. People yelling they were missing their flights.
Those east coast storms last night effed the entire system.kipfilet wrote: ↑Jul 10, 2023I don't fly WN often so don't get many chances to come to T2. Well, I did this morning, and it's absolute chaos. The security line twisted multiple times along the length of the terminal and finished outside the building. People yelling they were missing their flights.
I have coworkers traveling who trapped at the big hubs and are acting like they might not get in to St. Louis until late this afternoon or tonight.
So this is not just a “Lambert sucks” thing.
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How far into the center of the US from Dublin is going to be key. Also it won't go as far in the winter due to stronger headwinds going west.jshank83 wrote: ↑Jul 10, 2023Opens up more options for sure. I’ll be curious where the dividing line for what cities it works for are. Some cities already are in range of the 321LR and 757 (Ohio-ish and east) and don’t have anything so it will be interesting to see which airlines order the XLR and how they choose to deploy them. I’m guessing the American airlines use them more from hubs to smaller European cities or to South America. So far Aer Lingus and maybe Icelandair are the only 2 I see using them to expand to the midwest from Europe. AA/UA could surprise but I can’t see them getting away from their hub centric routes.shadrach wrote: ↑Jul 09, 2023It’s hyperbole but the article mentioned Omaha to London.
My point is everybody and their brother will potentially have TATL flights—KC, OKC, Columbus, Milwaukee…
For metros it won’t be competitive advantage but ‘the cost of entry.’ It’s kinda like that now already.
I’ve been really surprised Hawaiian hasn’t ordered any, seems like the perfect plane for them to open up more routes.
Also hopefully Hawaiian gets some down the road once its known as to the real range. Could have enough range to reach here from Honolulu.
My opinion: Aer Lingus is Icelandair but with a lot more O&D (3rd highest European from from STL), better connections, and an actual business class.
I wouldn’t even compare it to London.
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Was hanging out with a buddy who spends about half his time a year in STL, about half in London, and the remainder in Italy or elsewhere. He's just coming back stateside after a bout in London. He told me that, post-Brexit, London is falling apart, that it's losing not only its most wealthy residents (full-time and part-time) but also many multinational corporations because they can't integrate into the rest of the European Union. This is especially true for financial services; pre-Brexit, London had overtaken NYC as the global financial services hub.
Meanwhile, I've seen a bunch of financial services, consultancy, and technology firms opening new outposts in Dublin because it's (1) an EU member and (2) English-speaking, making it the ideal integration site for US-based businesses. I'd love to make it over to Dublin and just explore what's been taking place along the Docklands. Truly amazing stuff, especially considering where Ireland was 30 years ago.
Was hanging out with a buddy who spends about half his time a year in STL, about half in London, and the remainder in Italy or elsewhere. He's just coming back stateside after a bout in London. He told me that, post-Brexit, London is falling apart, that it's losing not only its most wealthy residents (full-time and part-time) but also many multinational corporations because they can't integrate into the rest of the European Union. This is especially true for financial services; pre-Brexit, London had overtaken NYC as the global financial services hub.
Meanwhile, I've seen a bunch of financial services, consultancy, and technology firms opening new outposts in Dublin because it's (1) an EU member and (2) English-speaking, making it the ideal integration site for US-based businesses. I'd love to make it over to Dublin and just explore what's been taking place along the Docklands. Truly amazing stuff, especially considering where Ireland was 30 years ago.
I’ve heard London’s a mess. So is San Francisco bit we’re all moaning we don’t have a flight there.
Admittedly, I’m totally projecting but…I can’t recall in my life anyone telling me about their trip to Dublin. In the past year, seven of my friends/acquaintances traveled to London. (None via LH).
Personally, Dublin is so low on my bucket list it’s irrelevant. Been to London a couple times, eager to go back.
Again, my stance comes down to incentives. I think Cleveland lured them with $12M (insane!) LH is $5M. Cincy paid (I think) $5M for BA. If we’re going to have to pay for another TATL, then pay for the for BA and have a flight to (what is still) an Alpha++ city.
If Aer Lingus wants to fly here without incentives, great. But $12M. Are you kidding me?! If we have to pony up that kind of money, give me London or Tokyo.
Admittedly, I’m totally projecting but…I can’t recall in my life anyone telling me about their trip to Dublin. In the past year, seven of my friends/acquaintances traveled to London. (None via LH).
Personally, Dublin is so low on my bucket list it’s irrelevant. Been to London a couple times, eager to go back.
Again, my stance comes down to incentives. I think Cleveland lured them with $12M (insane!) LH is $5M. Cincy paid (I think) $5M for BA. If we’re going to have to pay for another TATL, then pay for the for BA and have a flight to (what is still) an Alpha++ city.
If Aer Lingus wants to fly here without incentives, great. But $12M. Are you kidding me?! If we have to pony up that kind of money, give me London or Tokyo.
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Anecdotally I can count four different peers of mine (late 20s) that have separately travelled to Ireland in the past 12 months. It's also high on the list for my fiancée (although personally not very high on mine)
I'd welcome a LHR flight over DUB any day. I think it'd do better as well, Dublin is quite small in comparison to London, and much more business occurs in the UK. I think you'd get a better mix of business travelers and tourists. Also within a 2 hour drive/train of LHR you can reach numerous other cities including Oxford, or cross the country to near Wales (which I did by Uber in Nov). From London, the airline connections are plentiful, DUB would be rather limited in comparison. I think LHR would be the perfect compliment to FRA as I'd connect through LHR for Western Europe, but I wouldn't go to FRA first then back track, which could add up to 4 hours of sitting on a plane.
Personally, Dublin is one of the most boring cities I've been to out of 52 countries, but that's just my opinion, although London isn't on my favorites either.
Personally, Dublin is one of the most boring cities I've been to out of 52 countries, but that's just my opinion, although London isn't on my favorites either.
Dublin itself isn't anything special, I wouldn't go back there except flying in and out. The countryside is a different story, I would go back there in a heartbeat. I personally would rather fly into Shannon but that isn't an option.
Again, you can't compare London to Dublin. London obviously has more passengers and business. I think anyone would prefer a flight there. But in my opinion, if that was going to come it would have come already. With the slot restrictions growth there is pretty limited and I am not sure I see it coming before they open a new runway. Since Dublin is next on the lists for passengers from here, even ahead of Paris, it makes the most sense to bring in next. Flights from Dublin also don't do customs here so it won't use up a space in T2 to unload passengers.
Again, you can't compare London to Dublin. London obviously has more passengers and business. I think anyone would prefer a flight there. But in my opinion, if that was going to come it would have come already. With the slot restrictions growth there is pretty limited and I am not sure I see it coming before they open a new runway. Since Dublin is next on the lists for passengers from here, even ahead of Paris, it makes the most sense to bring in next. Flights from Dublin also don't do customs here so it won't use up a space in T2 to unload passengers.