Metro Safety

eee123 · PostMay 04, 2023#8762023-05-04T03:22+00:00

At least they're likely to deploy the metal detectors in the same half-assed way they implement all security, during daytime hours on weekdays only.

Taking a mode of transport that's already not time competitive and making it slower with all this security theater.

It'd be nice if they could use some of that money to pay somebody to keep schedules updated on the transit app with construction related closures of stations and lines.

hebeters · PostMay 07, 2023#8772023-05-07T22:18+00:00

'They Just Need a Safe Place to Be:' How Public Transit Became the Last Safety Net In America
The surge in homelessness on transit systems creates a conundrum for agencies used to the old way of doing things.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3wvq5/they-just-need-a-safe-place-to-be-how-public-transit-became-the-last-safety-net-in-america

chriss752 · PostMay 11, 2023#8782023-05-11T07:00+00:00

Just want to make a comment on here since I know the haters of MetroLink read this forum: I took a ride on the Metro, in the late afternoon/early evening, on May 4th, and saw absolutely no issues. In fact, it was enjoyable. Had two conversations with differing people (one about the Cardinals doing poorly and the other about the new North-South Metro). There were no rambunctious passengers. I felt safe on my ride from Shrewsbury to Laclede's Landing.

I expect this is the case for 99% of riders. All I want are for the trains to be kept clean and the stations well lit. Those two things do wonders on the safety perception side of things. For all the hate the media gives on MetroLink, it's a valuable asset. Parking my car and riding for free to wherever I want to go in the Central Corridor (to walk or explore), or to go to an event downtown is a great thing to have. For those who take it to work, even smarter. The system just needs to increase frequency on the Blue Line. 20-minute headways can be an inconvenience to some, but I guess spending millions on turnstiles and new fare card systems is more important to continue making the public feel safer.

Just keep the trains running on time, kept clean, and the stations well-lit and clean, and you have a winner.

For the haters who haven't taken the train recently, or ever, go for a ride. It's worth it.

sc4mayor · PostMay 11, 2023#8792023-05-11T16:14+00:00

Just keep the trains running on time, kept clean, and the stations well-lit and clean, and you have a winner.

I’ve always considered MetroLink to do these things fairly well, all things considered. I actually overheard two people talking at the bar the other day about how clean and easy it was to use compared to the MTA.

Overall I agree with you. It’s generally a pretty great system that just needs to extend its reach. And cut down on the pointless security theater. I never have issues outside of the occasional loud music playing or something like that.

The sh*tty Blue Line service will be here until they complete the signal house reconstruction at Forest Park, that won’t be done until the Fall. Apparently that signal house was completely destroyed and three others in the vicinity were significantly damaged during the flood.

bprop · PostMay 11, 2023#8802023-05-11T23:23+00:00

Another perspective from a visitor on May8 (from a TripAdvisor forum):

We used this forum to get information in planning our May 4-7 visit to St. Louis so I wanted to report back. We flew into Lambert and took the MetroLink to Union Station. We found many "colorful" characters on the train, with beer and marijuana in open use. Not terribly frightening, but we have not used any public transportation in a long time, so it was somewhat of a shock.

sc4mayor · PostMay 11, 2023#8812023-05-11T23:45+00:00

^ Sounds like a party! Nothing says trust us and our opinions since we never ride public transit! Except on this website apparently.

Maybe that’s because I’ve used public transit in much larger cities so these minor (exceedingly minor as far as STL goes) incidents don’t register with me.

I see many “colorful” folks on Metro. Just say you saw some black people. Don’t hide behind your racism. Own it.

stlurbanist · PostMay 12, 2023#8822023-05-12T03:09+00:00

I strongly believe Metro should increase its security presence in the second car in all the trains. Rear cars are where I see frequent smokers, loud music and occasional panhandlers. 8th and Pine station lighting should be improved with frequent power washes on the stairs. I love riding metro and no one can change my opinion about it. There is good and bad to it - no denying but I see lot of pros to riding public transit.

_nomad_ · PostMay 12, 2023#8832023-05-12T04:54+00:00

Is there a reason that metro runs 2 car trains instead of one longer train? It seems like the trend on other systems is towards continuous articulated units and that would compliment metro's security strategy, but the new trains are still 2 separate cars

dweebe · PostMay 12, 2023#8842023-05-12T12:39+00:00

_nomad_ wrote: ↑
May 12, 2023
Is there a reason that metro runs 2 car trains instead of one longer train? It seems like the trend on other systems is towards continuous articulated units and that would compliment metro's security strategy, but the new trains are still 2 separate cars

Because that’s what they bought 30+ years ago.

PostMay 12, 2023#8852023-05-12T12:53+00:00

stlurbanist wrote: ↑
May 12, 2023
I strongly believe Metro should increase its security presence in the second car in all the trains. Rear cars are where I see frequent smokers, loud music and occasional panhandlers. 8th and Pine station lighting should be improved with frequent power washes on the stairs. I love riding metro and no one can change my opinion about it. There is good and bad to it - no denying but I see lot of pros to riding public transit.

I’d like to know what trains people are riding on where they say they never see smoking, drinking and music being played over speakers.

The rear trains continue to be a haven of bad behavior and unenforced rules. And it’s weird how frequent it is.

I agree with you on 8th and Pine. That needs heavier security presence and much more frequent care. I think letting it get dirty and run down just encourages further mistreatment.

sc4mayor · PostMay 12, 2023#8862023-05-12T15:01+00:00

8th & Pine, Conventon, Skinker, and the Big Bend subway stations (and corresponding tunnels) are in line for full rehabilitations over the next two years.

https://www.metrostlouis.org/metro-proj ... rovements/

https://www.metrostlouis.org/metrolink- ... -projects/

bprop · PostMay 12, 2023#8872023-05-12T21:38+00:00

dweebe wrote: ↑
May 12, 2023
_nomad_ wrote: ↑
May 12, 2023
Is there a reason that metro runs 2 car trains instead of one longer train? It seems like the trend on other systems is towards continuous articulated units and that would compliment metro's security strategy, but the new trains are still 2 separate cars
Because that’s what they bought 30+ years ago.

And unfortunately they're buying them again.

dweebe · PostMay 12, 2023#8882023-05-12T21:58+00:00

bprop wrote: ↑
May 12, 2023
dweebe wrote: ↑
May 12, 2023
_nomad_ wrote: ↑
May 12, 2023
Is there a reason that metro runs 2 car trains instead of one longer train? It seems like the trend on other systems is towards continuous articulated units and that would compliment metro's security strategy, but the new trains are still 2 separate cars
Because that’s what they bought 30+ years ago.
And unfortunately they're buying them again.

Of course because everything St. Louis does, we do it wrong. But not the same trains because they're not built any more. Most likely these.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_S200

sc4mayor · PostMay 12, 2023#8892023-05-12T22:14+00:00

We also have to procure within the parameters of the manufacturers that produce the cars and the system we’ve already built. The S200 is the direct high-floor replacement to our existing cars.

It’d be nice if people would stop solving minor arguments with guns…everywhere lol. Unfortunately, we live in Missouri. Amazing how the system existed for all those years without the pointless security theater people are demanding now. I wonder what’s changed in those intervening 30 years…

LArchitecture · PostMay 12, 2023#8902023-05-12T22:28+00:00

Honestly I just hope the new ones have better ways to accommodate bikers.

stlurbanist · PostMay 12, 2023#8912023-05-12T22:46+00:00

LArchitecture wrote: ↑
May 12, 2023
Honestly I just hope the new ones have better ways to accommodate bikers.

I ride my bicycle all the time on metro. Did you have a bad experience? I never see more than one or at the most two bikers riding metro at any given time.

sc4mayor · PostMay 13, 2023#8922023-05-13T18:13+00:00

^ I’ve never had issues with taking a bike on trains here but the current setup leaves a bit to be desired.

Here’s a rendering of the interior of Cleveland’s coming new rail cars…also Siemens S200s. The racks that allow folks to lock up their bikes and relax instead of hold them in the cab area would be an improvement.

Calgary uses the same cars. Cleveland will have added functionality to service both high floor and low floor platforms, similar to MUNI in SF. Here’s a rundown of the features on the Calgary models:

The new cars feature a host of new and upgraded technologies. Heated floors and triple-pane windows were added to combat Calgary's harsh winter climate, as well as sloped entryways to eliminate moving ramps found on older trains. A new speaker system adjusts the volume output depending on the amount of passengers in each car. Dynamic interior LED lights adjust to become brighter when its dark and dimmer when light is shining through the windows. The end doors were moved back to improve passenger flow and include LED lights to indicate if a door can be opened or if it is closing/locked. New infotainment systems were added alongside LED info signs to display next stop and line information. It is also capable of showing advertisements, although it has not been implemented yet. Some of these features (LCD information screens, security cameras, LED exterior signs) have been implemented on the refurbished Siemens SD-160 cars as part of mid-lifecycle refurbishment.

Some of the Cleveland features:

High floor light-rail vehicles with two-door heights for high and low-level platform accessibility that provides the ability for the trains to operate on all rail lines. Advance infotainment system for enhanced digital and travel experience. Modern operator cab area with dedicated HVAC unit, heated windshield, and enhanced visibility. Ice cutter pantographs installed on every car. 52 passenger seats, four wheelchair areas and two bicycle rack locations per rail car.

LArchitecture · PostMay 13, 2023#8932023-05-13T18:53+00:00

stlurbanist wrote:
LArchitecture wrote: ↑
May 12, 2023
Honestly I just hope the new ones have better ways to accommodate bikers.
I ride my bicycle all the time on metro. Did you have a bad experience? I never see more than one or at the most two bikers riding metro at any given time.

No bad experience it’s just not convenient like other systems I’ve rode. No dedicated space to “rack” a bike and just sit. Instead we shove our wheels in the stairs of the area where the drivers board. I’ll still ride my bike but there’s way better methods to accommodate bikers over the current setup. Just see the previous post for an example.

shadrach · PostMay 13, 2023#8942023-05-13T19:01+00:00

Meanwhile in Germany….

Apples and oranges. This was on a DeutscheBahn ICE train. Basically the same Siemans Venture cars Amtrak uses. One can dream.

sc4mayor · PostMay 19, 2023#8952023-05-19T18:25+00:00

Just plain ugly:

https://cmt-stl.org/secure-platform-pla ... D2-F3PZs40

Debaliviere91 · PostMay 19, 2023#8962023-05-19T18:40+00:00

It is certainly ugly. Though if 0 fare evasion is their goal, I guess this would do the trick.

sc4mayor · PostMay 19, 2023#8972023-05-19T18:51+00:00

That’s not their goal. Roach has already said publicly that this is mostly a perception thing to lure riders back to the system under the assumption that it will be safer. I look forward to that blowing up in his face when someone is inevitably shot, stabbed or assaulted in the secure area. Which WILL happen lol. Then what?

Fare evasion has never been a problem here. Metro’s own security consultants said as much and also told them turnstiles wouldn’t work. This is all literally just an expensive plan to placate a handful of ignorant people (and the “journalists” at Fox2 and KMOV) who still won’t be bothered to ride the system when all this is done.

I can see the KMOV headlines after this fails already…

Debaliviere91 · PostMay 19, 2023#8982023-05-19T19:05+00:00

It’s a lot more than a handful of ignorant people who won’t ride the train due to the perception of it being unsafe. I’d guess a majority of folks in this region feel that way.

What’s the best way to change that perception, in your mind?

JaneJacobsGhost · PostMay 19, 2023#8992023-05-19T19:28+00:00

OK fine, Metro is placating a dead CEO and a shitload of other ignorant people who never ride metro and still won’t even after the turnstiles are installed.

These gates will make the stadium stop a nightmare on game day. And I’m very concerned about these gates making the metro an attractive target for a mass shooting event. People will not be able to flee.

Debaliviere91 · PostMay 19, 2023#9002023-05-19T19:36+00:00

The gates substantially increasing the risk of a mass shooting seems like quite a stretch. Couldn’t the same thing happen now on an enclosed train?

I’m not convinced on their actual impact to improving safety, but I’m not sure there is anything else we could do that would be more impactful in placating peoples perceived safety concerns. We’ll see how many actually choose to ride if they feel safer.

Metro Safety

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