The Hotels Thread

dweebe · PostSep 15, 2022#2012022-09-15T13:59+00:00

sc4mayor wrote: ↑
Sep 14, 2022
dweebe wrote: ↑
Sep 14, 2022
We're not Chicago which has the monstrous McCormick place but only 3 hotels nearby. Most everyone has to be bussed down from the Loop or River North
This. My industry’s trade show is in Chicago every other year and the convention organizers literally run their own buses all over downtown Chicago to pick people up and take them there. Nearly no one stays near McCormick Place.

I stayed at the Congress Plaza last time and rode the Metra Electric down to McCormick Place. Much, much better than the shuttle buses.

I’m also guessing some here don’t remember the Four Seasons and the casino have a tunnel under I-70 that drops people off right in front of the Dome on Convention Plaza.

There are only three Chicago convention hotels. The nicer/newer Marriott Marquis, an older Hyatt and a combo Hilton brand Homewood/Hampton. They are big but they everyone else needs to take buses or cabs.

If you're lucky enough you get to take the "bat tunnel" that runs along the train tracks from McCormick to the Loop. I've only done it once.

And like you, I've also taken the Metra heavy train to McCormick.

TalkinDev · PostSep 15, 2022#2022022-09-15T14:39+00:00

In late 2019, SLDC had a hotel study done which might shed some light on the perceived need for a new convention hotel. The study and be found here.

Surely COVID changed things a few months after the study was released, but we are now three years from the release, so maybe we are back to where it is relevant.
One point from the executive summary:

The number of rooms and the mix of rooms in the CBD hotel sub-market compares well to other markets reviewed. However, several of the markets have recently added, or are in the process of adding, one (1) of more major full-service hotels.

Also some key data is contained in tables on page 27 of the report (numbers from 2019), including:
Of peer and competitive midwestern cities, St. Louis CBD has by far the oldest hotel room inventory (2% of inventory built since 2016, KC 16%, Louisville 26%)

dweebe · PostSep 15, 2022#2032022-09-15T14:58+00:00

TalkinDev wrote: ↑
Sep 15, 2022
In late 2019, SLDC had a hotel study done which might shed some light on the perceived need for a new convention hotel. The study and be found here.

Surely COVID changed things a few months after the study was released, but we are now three years from the release, so maybe we are back to where it is relevant.
One point from the executive summary:
The number of rooms and the mix of rooms in the CBD hotel sub-market compares well to other markets reviewed. However, several of the markets have recently added, or are in the process of adding, one (1) of more major full-service hotels.
Also some key data is contained in tables on page 27 of the report (numbers from 2019), including:
Of peer and competitive midwestern cities, St. Louis CBD has by far the oldest hotel room inventory (2% of inventory built since 2016, KC 16%, Louisville 26%)

I don't see the point of building a huge convention hotel. Incremental with mid-sized ones that scale the market properly. Do they not remember how the Marriott struggled for a long time with low occupancy, refinances and talk of city support?
Plus all of these have come online since that 2019 study:
-Home 2/Tru in the Shell Building
-The Last Hotel
-Hotel St. Louis
-Live by Lowes

But I agree with some of the points:
-the Millenium needs to be sorely addressed
-downtown/central core does need an extended stay (Homewood Suites/Towneplace Suites) type hotel

And in regards to Louisville, that city was waaay under-hoteled before. They sorely needed anything built.

_nomad_ · PostFeb 17, 2023#2042023-02-17T16:40+00:00

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... condo.html

The OYO hotel is going to auction next month with a $3 million minimum bid. The sellers are marketing it as a "value-add opportunity" that could get tied to an existing hotel chain so maybe we'll see some renovations if it gets sold. The auction is for the hotel part of the building only, the residential condos aren't part of the auction.

dweebe · PostMar 08, 2023#2052023-03-08T12:49+00:00

Both the Hotel Indigo and Shell Building Tru/Home2 in to receivership. Not good.

Tim · PostMar 08, 2023#2062023-03-08T18:49+00:00

What does that mean, in layman's terms?

Will this impact the yet-to-start Chemical Building project, which is similar in scope? What about Jefferson Arms?

sc4mayor · PostMar 08, 2023#2072023-03-08T23:27+00:00

Indigo opened in 2019 and the Shell Building opened during the pandemic…my guess is those two didn’t make enough revenue in the Covid years to cover the debt they took out to complete the project. But I’m not an expert in that market by any means…but that’s kind of how I’ve understood what I’ve read so far.

Not really sure how indicative of the overall market these two are.

Jefferson Arms has financing in place and has begun interior work and applied for building permits as far as I know. I’m assuming the financiers are confident in that project.

dbInSouthCity · PostMar 08, 2023#2082023-03-08T23:34+00:00

I speak frequently with the owner of several downtown properties and they’re doing just fine, 2022 was very good and booking for 2023 are headed above 2022

dweebe · PostMar 08, 2023#2092023-03-08T23:52+00:00

sc4mayor wrote: ↑
Mar 08, 2023
Indigo opened in 2019 and the Shell Building opened during the pandemic…my guess is those two didn’t make enough revenue in the Covid years to cover the debt they took out to complete the project. But I’m not an expert in that market by any means…but that’s kind of how I’ve understood what I’ve read so far.

Not really sure how indicative of the overall market these two are.

Jefferson Arms has financing in place and has begun interior work and applied for building permits as far as I know. I’m assuming the financiers are confident in that project.

I also think they messed up by putting two of Hilton's value brands in the Shell building.

STLAPTS · PostMar 09, 2023#2102023-03-09T13:02+00:00

Tim wrote: ↑
Mar 08, 2023
What does that mean, in layman's terms?

Will this impact the yet-to-start Chemical Building project, which is similar in scope? What about Jefferson Arms?

I wouldn't read too much into it. There are several possible reasons that are not demand / market driven for why it has been put into receivership. Poor management, over leveraged portfolio, debt maturing that can't be restructured are just a few reasons.

TalkinDev · PostMar 09, 2023#2112023-03-09T20:32+00:00

^ Right, add cost overruns during the pandemic. If you took out a higher interest bridge loan to cover those costs assuming you could refinance at completion at 4% and now rates are touching 7% you could easily get in over your head.

STLEnginerd · PostMar 09, 2023#2122023-03-09T22:13+00:00

Timing may have sucked but a boutique hotel in the LaSalle Building should be able to find success. The shell building i was never as sold on as a hotel. I alway thought it should be apartments or condos.

sc4mayor · PostMar 10, 2023#2132023-03-10T15:33+00:00

Lenders resort to receivership for two St. Louis hotels in financial trouble
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... -top-story

For the lender of Hotel Indigo, the move to receivership isn’t commentary on the downtown market but rather how that particular hotel was managed, said the lender’s attorney, Daniel Doyle of Lashly & Baer. The lender, Saint Louis Bank, has no plans to sell the hotel, he said.

“We think it’s a viable hotel,” Doyle said. “It needs some changes, and the owner is on board with that, too.”

GoHarvOrGoHome · PostMar 10, 2023#2142023-03-10T16:15+00:00

The staff and management at Indigo was a revolving door

sc4mayor · PostApr 11, 2023#2152023-04-11T21:31+00:00

Hotels are Back
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... rDnByn1Na0

Long story short, things look pretty good. Especially downtown. Advantes says AT&T is progressing as are Midas’ hotels at Jefferson.

A note about the Four Seasons:

For downtown hotels that historically have relied heavily on convention and corporate travel such as the Four Seasons St. Louis, the pandemic hit particularly hard. The Four Seasons recorded one of its best-ever years in 2019, and with corporate and convention travel picking back up, the hotel is back to about 75% of that business, said Laura Castonguay, director of sales and marketing for the downtown hotel. She expects those numbers to climb to 2019 figures by the end of the year.

“Last year was still recovery, for sure, so we’re just happy to see that people are coming to the city. The conventions, the groups are coming back, and with the convention center renovation, that’s only going to help in the future,” Castonguay said.

And:

A change could be a good thing for the overall market, where the occupancy rate has historically lagged behind similar cities, McCoy said. Currently, HVS’ outlook for St. Louis is stronger than for similar Midwest cities, he said.

dweebe · PostApr 11, 2023#2162023-04-11T22:07+00:00

I wonder what's going on here.

Auction of downtown St. Louis hotel is postponed
The OYO Hotel St. Louis Downtown City Center was scheduled to be auctioned online March 20.
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... 0843ff7131

TalkinDev · PostApr 12, 2023#2172023-04-12T14:59+00:00

Could have gotten an offer(s) outside of the auction process. That would postpone the auction.

dbInSouthCity · PostApr 12, 2023#2182023-04-12T15:26+00:00

I wonder….if this is someone trying to buy it for the international institute for their plan to have 200-250 unit building for transitional housing for immigrants. This location makes sense, it’s next to transit

dredger · PostApr 13, 2023#2192023-04-13T23:52+00:00

dweebe wrote: ↑
Apr 11, 2023
I wonder what's going on here.

Auction of downtown St. Louis hotel is postponed
The OYO Hotel St. Louis Downtown City Center was scheduled to be auctioned online March 20.
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... 0843ff7131

Someone with a lot better understanding than I can fill clarify something for me. Doesn't the hotel itself only take up part of the building itself? The rest of the floors make up extended stay type lodging and or condo's?? If so, makes sense that a couple things could possible come about as the building itself might transition to more of a residential building at end of day.

TalkinDev · PostApr 14, 2023#2202023-04-14T13:49+00:00

^ The upper floors are condos, but the hotel and ground floor retail portion is a large condo under separate ownership. I would assume the residential condos have one condo association and the the hotel condo is largely independent, outside of some maintenance and insurance agreements.

Given its location, it would make sense to keep it as a hotel, ideally with a better flag and management.

dweebe · PostApr 14, 2023#2212023-04-14T14:24+00:00

TalkinDev wrote: ↑
Apr 14, 2023
^ The upper floors are condos, but the hotel and ground floor retail portion is a large condo under separate ownership. I would assume the residential condos have one condo association and the the hotel condo is largely independent, outside of some maintenance and insurance agreements.

Given its location, it would make sense to keep it as a hotel, ideally with a better flag and management.

Yup. And getting the lobby bar back would be nice if just for Enterprise Center events.

GoHarvOrGoHome · PostApr 14, 2023#2222023-04-14T14:31+00:00

That hotel is pretty ratty, but it would be fairly cheap to get up to snuff. No major gut work needed, just new furniture, carpets, and paint in the rooms. Maybe a more involved renovation of the lobby and common areas. Obviously needs a good operator as well.

STLEnginerd · PostApr 14, 2023#2232023-04-14T17:32+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑
Apr 12, 2023
I wonder….if this is someone trying to buy it for the international institute for their plan to have 200-250 unit building for transitional housing for immigrants. This location makes sense, it’s next to transit

that seems like a really random guess... unless you know something.

dbInSouthCity · PostApr 14, 2023#2242023-04-14T18:06+00:00

not really random, i know they're looking, and i know downtown is one of the preferred options because of trains/bus

STLEnginerd · PostApr 14, 2023#2252023-04-14T18:12+00:00

so you did know something

The Hotels Thread

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