urbanSTL

Denial upheld 4-0 with one abstention. No surprise.

It was the right choice for them to make. 10 people spoke, 7 people were against and the other 3 were in support, but split into two categories. Two people were Lux residents. Another is their demolition contractor.

Jack Coatar abstained from the vote

imran wrote: ↑

Dec 06, 2022

I’m so conflicted. The project is so much better without the dumb curb cuts. Would be wild if Planning Commission approves it.

If Lux goes to the Planning Commission with the revised plan (that no one has seen until this evening and has components the neighborhood was against the first time around), it’ll make them look like even bigger a**holes than they are for pulling the stunt they did tonight. I doubt the Planning Commission would approve it because of that reason. They presented one thing to the neighborhood and later submitted something else. Not a good way to make friends anywhere, let alone here where they’re walking a very thin line.

Their best bet now is to sell and be done with this site.

I guess we'll be staring at those vacant eyesores for another decade. 

Let's see if the Grove Properties proposal on Manchester garners neighborhood and Ald support, which would help them get the demos approved. That would be a hood indicator of potential progress here.

I sure hope they win. They've presented a solid proposal that fits the site well. It's well past time to get this very prominent location developed. 

framer wrote: ↑

Mar 04, 2023

I sure hope they win. They've presented a solid proposal that fits the site well. It's well past time to get this very prominent location developed. 

Agreed!

framer wrote: ↑

Mar 04, 2023

I sure hope they win. They've presented a solid proposal that fits the site well. It's well past time to get this very prominent location developed. 

They cannot be trusted to build a quality apartment building, that's not solid. 

At this rate, yes, just get it moving.  Even if it's not perfect don't let it be the enemy of good.. this corner has been a blight for at least over a decade since I've been back in town.

I do wish Lux would put an iota of design creativity here though.  Buildings like Hutcheson Arms and the Saum are awesome.  Maybe split up a couple of the buildings with some different designs and would make this block stand point all the more.

Saying no appears to be working out for the Optimist. Might the same happen here? Different though that Lux owns the buildings here whereas they didn't with the Optimist.

^Yeah like look at what happened Debaliviere. The Hudson was badly built and then Lux went and sued the Expo to protect their investment from competition. This is not an example of the perfect being the enemy of the good. Lux does not build good housing! Have we forgotten that they discussed intentionally destabilizing the existing buildings on S Kingshighway in order to push their project through? 

It sounds to me like many of y'all are just in favor of all development and have actually 0 standards for quality. 

. The Hudson was badly built
As are many of these sticks and plastic projects are Oh excuse me 'engineered materials'
Scratch beneath the patina and its junk

Lux has taken a helluva beating in the press lately (deservedly so). Presumably they've learned from all of this, and realize that they've got to improve their business practices and build a better product. At what point do we trust that they'll do that? Or do we never allow them to build anything again? That seems rather harsh, and probably illegal.

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑

Mar 04, 2023

At this rate, yes, just get it moving.  Even if it's not perfect don't let it be the enemy of good.. this corner has been a blight for at least over a decade since I've been back in town.

I do wish Lux would put an iota of design creativity here though.  Buildings like Hutcheson Arms and the Saum are awesome.  Maybe split up a couple of the buildings with some different designs and would make this block stand point all the more.

Unfortunately the Saum is an example of why Lux shouldn't be trusted. The building is great, but Lux/Citywide has been absolutely terrible at managing it and is running it into the ground.

^Yep, in addition to new construction, they bought or started managing 10+ historic apartment buildings in the City, all of which have deteriorated into terrible places to live (look at the google review of their buildings). It's awful, and to suggest it's harsh to judge them for their record up through like last year is incredibly naive. 

What kind of reparations should they make? At what point should they be allowed to resume new developments?

Not trying to be argumentative, just really curious what they need to do to regain people's trust?

^When the tenants of their current housing say it's a good place to live and their buildings are not notorious for being some of the worst buildings to live in the city. If they're still racking up bad review by tenants they haven't gotten better. Also, I find it weird the notion that you think it's been a while since they made mistakes. Like all the sagas I'm referring to were going on in 2022. 

It’s a bit odd to me that they would rather keep this project alive after being repeatedly denied rather than just sell the property and be done with it. They could’ve done this same thing with the Optimist project, which had most people supportive, but they didn’t.

They have their hands full with a project in the Denver suburbs, 170 and Dorsett, Crestwood, Engineers, the one they’ll likely develop across from SoHo, and the five in KC (14th and Wyandotte high-rise, Katz, Freight House, Wonderland, and Berkeley Riverfront Park).

I don’t think they can have good quality control over their old properties and newest properties when they’re in the mindset of build and sell instead of build and hold. You can build and own a ton of apartments, but if a majority of your residents don’t like upkeep, response time, and/or are afraid to speak up out of fear of having their text messages subpoenaed, then you should honestly take a step back and look at what you need to work on before you develop a new property again. Fix what you have before going forward.

Their money would be better spent on fixing their properties and improving relationships instead of artificially boosting their image through testimony from “non-paid residents”, fake reviews, and quick profits to pay down debt from build and flip projects

_nomad_ wrote: ↑

Mar 04, 2023

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑

Mar 04, 2023

At this rate, yes, just get it moving.  Even if it's not perfect don't let it be the enemy of good.. this corner has been a blight for at least over a decade since I've been back in town.

I do wish Lux would put an iota of design creativity here though.  Buildings like Hutcheson Arms and the Saum are awesome.  Maybe split up a couple of the buildings with some different designs and would make this block stand point all the more.

Unfortunately the Saum is an example of why Lux shouldn't be trusted. The building is great, but Lux/Citywide has been absolutely terrible at managing it and is running it into the ground.

I didn't know they managed the Saum, just submitted it as an example of granular architecture.  I unfortunately know about some of the Downtown buildings they run.  I do understand the sh*tty management.  I didn't mean to exclude that they're kinda sh*tty developers, but has anyone else stepped forward to re-envision this swath of buildings? The speculation on this site and development has yo-yo'd for like, three to five years it seems.

Just hard as a citizen to see the continued blight here, avoidably so albeit, the last 10-12 years to where I gave my sentiment about throwing in the towel.  I wish someone like AHM, PPG, or else, would hop in and make some magic.  But is there anyone else who put forth any sort of plan here other than Drury letting these properties sit and rot?

So after everything

Years of changing their name because native St. Louisans quickly learn to recognize and avoid them
The sh*tty construction
The lack of safety maintenance
The lawsuits against other builders for daring to build near them
The legal action against tenants for daring to speak out about unsafe and unsanitary conditions
Actual action by the city on unsafe and illegal activities at one of their "premier" properties
Dishonest and manipulative actions to try to ram their way into approval for this specific project
Not to mention the certain.....other allegations about them

There are still, still people who want to just sweep it all under the rug. To get what in all likelihood will be a poorly constructed, badly run, and neglected multi-story building in on a street corner.

What can you really say? You deserve what you tolerate.